5 ms·

For people who didn't know: Wiz is apparently a internal framework that Google uses for their apps that wasn't ever open sourced (at least, not completely, base

by easton 3y ago

For people who didn't know: Wiz is apparently a internal framework that Google uses for their apps that wasn't ever open sourced (at least, not completely, based on a quick search). At least they'll be dogfooding Angular now hopefully.

throwaway290 3y ago
I thought some teams at Google were dogfooding Angular for many years now?
- nness 3y ago
  I can say from experience that Google requires third-parties use Angular when they are developing experiences on behalf of Google — i.e. through their agency partners.
- brianzelip 3y ago
  Lots have been [0,1] 0, https://changelog.com/jsparty/310 https://changelog.com/jsparty/310 1, https://changelog.com/jsparty/312 https://changelog.com/jsparty/312
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    Yeah. I distinctly remember Google using it itself a big motivator to go with AngularJS and then Angular in side projects, so I was not wrong...
- danpalmer 3y ago
  Basically all web frontends I've seen here are either Angular or Wiz, depending on latency requirements, or they're some legacy technology that is being moved to Angular or Wiz.
  - montgomeryburns 3y ago
    Any tips on preparing to work with Wiz as an incoming intern. I heard its identical to Stimulus: https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/ https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/
- FreeTheWeb 3y ago
  Wiz is a web framework at google that is abysmal to work with. It’s still living in 2010, it’s all Java backend based, the build times are unbearable, and the templating, Soy, is some Java engineer who loves curly braces too much. It’s a lot of magic and all convoluted, it’s pathetic a company this large has this as their main offering, JSX is a positive move but it’s still lipstick on a pig as it’s not really JSX but just three Java templates under the hood for now. Signals aren’t the panacea they keep saying as they simply don’t scale in big apps since the data flow is all over the place. Googlers use Angular at google because despite its garbage size and developer experience, believe it or not, the dev experience is miles better than Wiz. It’s also nowhere near the most popular internal usage framework idk why they say that. It’s Wiz by far. And all this is because googlers just want React or Vue but are not allowed because they are “not sanctioned”. The same reason why you can’t SSR Angular at google, because Node isn’t even sanctioned. This is all just a Hail Mary by Angular because their NPM numbers are dropping and just got surpassed by Preact of all frameworks. My job skills are languishing at google because I’m writing Wiz and Angular all day
  - renegade-otter 3y ago
    > My job skills are languishing at google because I’m writing Wiz and Angular all day Do people actually spend months prepping for Leetcode interviews to get the job? To improve tech skills? Or is it just the money? ;)
  - montgomeryburns 3y ago
    Any tips on preparing to work with Wiz as an incoming intern. I heard its identical to Stimulus: https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/ https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/
jpalomaki 3y ago
From the presentation: Angular is for "enterprise" apps. Wiz is for latency sensitive consumer apps (Google Search, Google Meet, Photos). They also mentioned Wiz is tightly integrated with the Google tech stack.
esprehn 3y ago
Google uses Angular quite a lot already. Pretty much all internal tools (bug tracker, code review, release tooling etc) is built with it. There's also a number of public facing apps like GCP Cloud Console and the Gemini web app. Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. None of it is open source, and to be honest even if it was it's unlikely most people would want to use the mix of Java+Soy+JS+jQuery-ish API. Interestingly both frameworks are around the same age (if you count Angular 1.0), but Wiz was kept internal. What Sarah is referring to is both a big shift in Wiz to get modern ergonomics and a shift in the framework strategy to avoid having two entirely separate frameworks.
- skybrian 3y ago
  There is also AngularDart, which is a fork. But it’s been a while since I left Google and I don’t know how much it’s used nowadays.
- troupo 3y ago
  > Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. This unsubstantiated claim is being paraded around by Googlers all over Twitter. And there's literaly nothing to back up this claim. Have you seen the extreme performance of the websites it apparently powers? Here's Youtube's extreme performance: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1770911027766370648 https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1770911027766370648
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    That thread was amazing to follow. I got a chuckle at the end. These engineers are responsible for the fates of a lot of people outside of Google as well because of how many companies have adopted their tooling (like my company). They should be challenged to defend their views in the real world. If they are good ideas then it shouldn't be a problem.
  - finnthehuman 3y ago
    lol. lmao even.
  - 3y ago

by easton 3y ago

throwaway290 3y ago

I thought some teams at Google were dogfooding Angular for many years now?

nness 3y ago
I can say from experience that Google requires third-parties use Angular when they are developing experiences on behalf of Google — i.e. through their agency partners.
brianzelip 3y ago
Lots have been [0,1] 0, https://changelog.com/jsparty/310 https://changelog.com/jsparty/310 1, https://changelog.com/jsparty/312 https://changelog.com/jsparty/312
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Yeah. I distinctly remember Google using it itself a big motivator to go with AngularJS and then Angular in side projects, so I was not wrong...
danpalmer 3y ago
Basically all web frontends I've seen here are either Angular or Wiz, depending on latency requirements, or they're some legacy technology that is being moved to Angular or Wiz.
- montgomeryburns 3y ago
  Any tips on preparing to work with Wiz as an incoming intern. I heard its identical to Stimulus: https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/ https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/
FreeTheWeb 3y ago
Wiz is a web framework at google that is abysmal to work with. It’s still living in 2010, it’s all Java backend based, the build times are unbearable, and the templating, Soy, is some Java engineer who loves curly braces too much. It’s a lot of magic and all convoluted, it’s pathetic a company this large has this as their main offering, JSX is a positive move but it’s still lipstick on a pig as it’s not really JSX but just three Java templates under the hood for now. Signals aren’t the panacea they keep saying as they simply don’t scale in big apps since the data flow is all over the place. Googlers use Angular at google because despite its garbage size and developer experience, believe it or not, the dev experience is miles better than Wiz. It’s also nowhere near the most popular internal usage framework idk why they say that. It’s Wiz by far. And all this is because googlers just want React or Vue but are not allowed because they are “not sanctioned”. The same reason why you can’t SSR Angular at google, because Node isn’t even sanctioned. This is all just a Hail Mary by Angular because their NPM numbers are dropping and just got surpassed by Preact of all frameworks. My job skills are languishing at google because I’m writing Wiz and Angular all day
- renegade-otter 3y ago
  > My job skills are languishing at google because I’m writing Wiz and Angular all day Do people actually spend months prepping for Leetcode interviews to get the job? To improve tech skills? Or is it just the money? ;)
- montgomeryburns 3y ago
  Any tips on preparing to work with Wiz as an incoming intern. I heard its identical to Stimulus: https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/ https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/

jpalomaki 3y ago

From the presentation: Angular is for "enterprise" apps. Wiz is for latency sensitive consumer apps (Google Search, Google Meet, Photos). They also mentioned Wiz is tightly integrated with the Google tech stack.

esprehn 3y ago

Google uses Angular quite a lot already. Pretty much all internal tools (bug tracker, code review, release tooling etc) is built with it. There's also a number of public facing apps like GCP Cloud Console and the Gemini web app. Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. None of it is open source, and to be honest even if it was it's unlikely most people would want to use the mix of Java+Soy+JS+jQuery-ish API. Interestingly both frameworks are around the same age (if you count Angular 1.0), but Wiz was kept internal. What Sarah is referring to is both a big shift in Wiz to get modern ergonomics and a shift in the framework strategy to avoid having two entirely separate frameworks.

skybrian 3y ago
There is also AngularDart, which is a fork. But it’s been a while since I left Google and I don’t know how much it’s used nowadays.
troupo 3y ago
> Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. This unsubstantiated claim is being paraded around by Googlers all over Twitter. And there's literaly nothing to back up this claim. Have you seen the extreme performance of the websites it apparently powers? Here's Youtube's extreme performance: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1770911027766370648 https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1770911027766370648
- nebula8804 3y ago
  That thread was amazing to follow. I got a chuckle at the end. These engineers are responsible for the fates of a lot of people outside of Google as well because of how many companies have adopted their tooling (like my company). They should be challenged to defend their views in the real world. If they are good ideas then it shouldn't be a problem.
- finnthehuman 3y ago
  lol. lmao even.
- 3y ago