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This is a nice way to end up repeating historical blunders. Economic growth is what empowers people. What do you suppose your role will be in the society you

by fooker 3y ago

This is a nice way to end up repeating historical blunders. Economic growth is what empowers people. What do you suppose your role will be in the society you are imagining? Hint: it likely won't be anywhere close to being able to make decisions for yourself. Let's talk about your points: * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
> * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? How is that different than working in a corporation all your life with only new technology as a compensation? If I lived in a small community of people surrounded by nature instead of the artificial desert made by concrete, I would gladly work on a farm as long as I had th autonomy to feed myself and contribute to the community. Why not? We don't have to go back to feudalism. If we had independent communities, I would gladly learn a combination of farming, hunter-gathering, and a more wholesome relationship with nature rather than participate in this industrial farce. I don't want MONEY for compensation, I want the ability to provide for my basic needs directly through small community efforts. Seems like other animals do it just fine, and we are no different. We just lost our way. > * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that. Again, as long as I can live in a community and provide for myself in my own way my contributing my skills to working on a farm/hunter-gathering, perhaps with indigenous knowledge in sustainable ways, I would gladly give up my computer, smartphone, movie collection, etc. > * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land.
- fooker 3y ago
  >only new technology as a compensation? No, you get a boatload of money and other semi-liquid wealth. >I would gladly work on a farm Good for you, many would not and still be forced to. How do you think feudalism operated, just taking the people who would have gladly worked? > I would gladly give up my Again, good for you. Many would not, and guess what? they would be force to anyway. What about something you would not be glad to give up? > My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land. Sure, as long as you can't force everyone to follow you.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    > Sure, as long as you can't force everyone to follow you. What about the fact that many people are FORCED to develop new technology as a job because that is pretty much the only job that has existed? What about the species that were FORCED into extinction because you can have your technology. You speak of FORCING, but modern society has FORCED indigenous people out of their way of life, forced poor people from their lands for resources. None of us has ANY RIGHT to destroy the ecosystem and ruin lives and exterminate wild species for technological development. It's immoral and thus I believe anyone who does not wish to give up their technology has already forfeited their right to keep it. What you are oblivious to is that technological development forces people into a way of life and forces this world into a way of being that many people simply do not want.
vouaobrasil 3y ago
> What do you suppose your role will be in the society you are imagining? Hint: it likely won't be anywhere close to being able to make decisions for yourself. So you now have the ability to predict what a new society would be like? What about societies that have done it before? The Amish do it pretty well (except for their insistence on having large numbers of children). You know, I am often accused of being a "doomer" or some other such, but your lack of imagination and belief in our ability to be sustainable is both astounding and depressing.

by fooker 3y ago

vouaobrasil 3y ago

> * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? How is that different than working in a corporation all your life with only new technology as a compensation? If I lived in a small community of people surrounded by nature instead of the artificial desert made by concrete, I would gladly work on a farm as long as I had th autonomy to feed myself and contribute to the community. Why not? We don't have to go back to feudalism. If we had independent communities, I would gladly learn a combination of farming, hunter-gathering, and a more wholesome relationship with nature rather than participate in this industrial farce. I don't want MONEY for compensation, I want the ability to provide for my basic needs directly through small community efforts. Seems like other animals do it just fine, and we are no different. We just lost our way. > * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that. Again, as long as I can live in a community and provide for myself in my own way my contributing my skills to working on a farm/hunter-gathering, perhaps with indigenous knowledge in sustainable ways, I would gladly give up my computer, smartphone, movie collection, etc. > * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land.

fooker 3y ago
>only new technology as a compensation? No, you get a boatload of money and other semi-liquid wealth. >I would gladly work on a farm Good for you, many would not and still be forced to. How do you think feudalism operated, just taking the people who would have gladly worked? > I would gladly give up my Again, good for you. Many would not, and guess what? they would be force to anyway. What about something you would not be glad to give up? > My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land. Sure, as long as you can't force everyone to follow you.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  > Sure, as long as you can't force everyone to follow you. What about the fact that many people are FORCED to develop new technology as a job because that is pretty much the only job that has existed? What about the species that were FORCED into extinction because you can have your technology. You speak of FORCING, but modern society has FORCED indigenous people out of their way of life, forced poor people from their lands for resources. None of us has ANY RIGHT to destroy the ecosystem and ruin lives and exterminate wild species for technological development. It's immoral and thus I believe anyone who does not wish to give up their technology has already forfeited their right to keep it. What you are oblivious to is that technological development forces people into a way of life and forces this world into a way of being that many people simply do not want.

vouaobrasil 3y ago

> What do you suppose your role will be in the society you are imagining? Hint: it likely won't be anywhere close to being able to make decisions for yourself. So you now have the ability to predict what a new society would be like? What about societies that have done it before? The Amish do it pretty well (except for their insistence on having large numbers of children). You know, I am often accused of being a "doomer" or some other such, but your lack of imagination and belief in our ability to be sustainable is both astounding and depressing.