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> “There’s no silver bullet,” said Bhattacharjee. “Social policies to improve birth rates such as enhanced parental leave, free childcare, financial incentives,

> “There’s no silver bullet,” said Bhattacharjee. “Social policies to improve birth rates such as enhanced parental leave, free childcare, financial incentives, and extra employment rights, may provide a small boost to fertility rates, but most countries will remain below replacement levels. And once nearly every country’s population is shrinking, reliance on open immigration will become necessary to sustain economic growth. We should NOT be aiming for economic growth! That is fundamentally unsustainable. It is good that the population growth will slow down. What we should be aiming for is using LESS energy every year, and looking for new ways to become a "steady state" population that does not NEED economic growth to survive. We need to become minimalists, seeking for satisfaction beyond growing this horrendously unsustainable economy, or else we will surely end in disaster. We should: * Reduce our dependence on global supply chains * Become more sustainable locally with locally grown food through sustainable farming which includes vastly reducing meat intake * Use MUCH less energy We have more than enough resources to do it, only the wealthy don't want a world where their portfolios aren't always growing, which is one of the main obstacles to sustainability. (But if we are smart, we will take them down by force in the same way they have pillaged the ecosystem by force.) Economic growth is a recipe for disaster.

mannycalavera42 3y ago
strong quote!
tgv 3y ago
Completely right, but the mindset seems to be directed towards growth and expansion, practically all over the world.
- viraptor 3y ago
  It's the local maximum and a prisoner's dilemma in one. You'd need everyone to agree to change at the same time and they'll need to believe no neighbours will conquer them by being able to afford more military. This gets even more rough when the available working/serving population gets smaller and any local gains are bigger relative to your neighbours.
fooker 3y ago
This is a nice way to end up repeating historical blunders. Economic growth is what empowers people. What do you suppose your role will be in the society you are imagining? Hint: it likely won't be anywhere close to being able to make decisions for yourself. Let's talk about your points: * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  > * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? How is that different than working in a corporation all your life with only new technology as a compensation? If I lived in a small community of people surrounded by nature instead of the artificial desert made by concrete, I would gladly work on a farm as long as I had th autonomy to feed myself and contribute to the community. Why not? We don't have to go back to feudalism. If we had independent communities, I would gladly learn a combination of farming, hunter-gathering, and a more wholesome relationship with nature rather than participate in this industrial farce. I don't want MONEY for compensation, I want the ability to provide for my basic needs directly through small community efforts. Seems like other animals do it just fine, and we are no different. We just lost our way. > * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that. Again, as long as I can live in a community and provide for myself in my own way my contributing my skills to working on a farm/hunter-gathering, perhaps with indigenous knowledge in sustainable ways, I would gladly give up my computer, smartphone, movie collection, etc. > * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land.
  - fooker 3y ago
    >only new technology as a compensation? No, you get a boatload of money and other semi-liquid wealth. >I would gladly work on a farm Good for you, many would not and still be forced to. How do you think feudalism operated, just taking the people who would have gladly worked? > I would gladly give up my Again, good for you. Many would not, and guess what? they would be force to anyway. What about something you would not be glad to give up? > My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land. Sure, as long as you can't force everyone to follow you.
goalieca 3y ago
> Social policies to improve birth rates such as enhanced parental leave, free childcare, financial incentives, and extra employment rights, may provide a small boost to fertility rates, but most countries will remain below replacement levels The poorest, most religious, and least developed countries have the highest birth rate. We should be honest with ourselves about why people aren’t having kids.

mannycalavera42 3y ago

strong quote!

tgv 3y ago

Completely right, but the mindset seems to be directed towards growth and expansion, practically all over the world.

viraptor 3y ago
It's the local maximum and a prisoner's dilemma in one. You'd need everyone to agree to change at the same time and they'll need to believe no neighbours will conquer them by being able to afford more military. This gets even more rough when the available working/serving population gets smaller and any local gains are bigger relative to your neighbours.

fooker 3y ago

This is a nice way to end up repeating historical blunders. Economic growth is what empowers people. What do you suppose your role will be in the society you are imagining? Hint: it likely won't be anywhere close to being able to make decisions for yourself. Let's talk about your points: * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
> * Sustainable local food - same as the above, would you work on a farm with just the food as compensation? How is that different than working in a corporation all your life with only new technology as a compensation? If I lived in a small community of people surrounded by nature instead of the artificial desert made by concrete, I would gladly work on a farm as long as I had th autonomy to feed myself and contribute to the community. Why not? We don't have to go back to feudalism. If we had independent communities, I would gladly learn a combination of farming, hunter-gathering, and a more wholesome relationship with nature rather than participate in this industrial farce. I don't want MONEY for compensation, I want the ability to provide for my basic needs directly through small community efforts. Seems like other animals do it just fine, and we are no different. We just lost our way. > * Much less energy - this one is doable for sure, you just won't be able to choose what you give up. It'll be someone else deciding that. Again, as long as I can live in a community and provide for myself in my own way my contributing my skills to working on a farm/hunter-gathering, perhaps with indigenous knowledge in sustainable ways, I would gladly give up my computer, smartphone, movie collection, etc. > * Reduce dependency on global supply chains - Are you willing and able to work in a factory? My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land.
- fooker 3y ago
  >only new technology as a compensation? No, you get a boatload of money and other semi-liquid wealth. >I would gladly work on a farm Good for you, many would not and still be forced to. How do you think feudalism operated, just taking the people who would have gladly worked? > I would gladly give up my Again, good for you. Many would not, and guess what? they would be force to anyway. What about something you would not be glad to give up? > My aim is to abolish most factories and just live off the land. Sure, as long as you can't force everyone to follow you.

goalieca 3y ago

> Social policies to improve birth rates such as enhanced parental leave, free childcare, financial incentives, and extra employment rights, may provide a small boost to fertility rates, but most countries will remain below replacement levels The poorest, most religious, and least developed countries have the highest birth rate. We should be honest with ourselves about why people aren’t having kids.