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> For example, much of their value is in the software, which replicates for nearly zero marginal cost. People have been saying this for decades now and conveni

> For example, much of their value is in the software, which replicates for nearly zero marginal cost. People have been saying this for decades now and conveniently forget that replacing CD cases with Internet downloads doesn't eliminate the fact that software engineering is expensive in itself. Crazy how TurboTax isn't $5 or Tesla FSD doesn't come standard. So much for zero marginal cost.

hackerlight 3y ago
Still, the cost per unit will decrease as the number of units increases, which was the point.
- andrewmcwatters 3y ago
  You can say the same thing about any product mass produced.
  - hackerlight 3y ago
    Not everything has the same unit economics. The self-driving software is one part of the costs that is heavy on the fixed costs side and will therefore scale better than other costs. If you produce a million cars vs one car, the cost to make that software isn't a million times more expensive.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  There isn't really a reason to expect a significant effect, in practice, Tesla COGS/unit plateaued a few 100K ago. It's a bit too abstract and high-level. Batteries specifically does make sense, ex. Model X has 100 kWh battery. if I price out 100 kWh at $200 right now (high) and its $100 a decade from now, about $20K. "Software" is hand-waving. Electric motors being easier does make sense.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
Both of your examples are kind of monopolies Is there any car software that’s “open”?
- adolph 3y ago
  openpilot is an open source advanced driver assistance system that works on 250+ car models of Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and many other brands https://www.comma.ai/openpilot https://www.comma.ai/openpilot
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Can I run their software on Tesla?
    - adolph 3y ago
      There are examples of this, yes [0]. The phrase "run . . . on Tesla" might have different meanings. OpenPilot is not installed directly on the Tesla hardware (as far as I'm aware). OpenPilot runs on separate hardware that communicates over the car's network, typically CAN bus [1]. An analogy might be attaching USB devices to a laptop, which has its own video, sound, keyboard, and pointer; but for which a user might desire some other feedback and control method. 0. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/say-hello-to-an-fsd-ap-alternative-comma-openpilot-oss-vehicle-autonomy.266886/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/say-hello-to-an-fsd-... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
doctor_eval 3y ago
ICEs have software too, including multiple units to manage the various ICE systems that an EV doesn’t need.
silvestrov 3y ago
You forget that CDs were much more expensive than LPs even when CDs were cheaper to produce and distribute. The music companies simply got too greedy and now their market has imploded and most people only pay for Spotify. We might get a rerun of asian producers dominating the car market and making a panic in USA car makers.

hackerlight 3y ago

Still, the cost per unit will decrease as the number of units increases, which was the point.

andrewmcwatters 3y ago
You can say the same thing about any product mass produced.
- hackerlight 3y ago
  Not everything has the same unit economics. The self-driving software is one part of the costs that is heavy on the fixed costs side and will therefore scale better than other costs. If you produce a million cars vs one car, the cost to make that software isn't a million times more expensive.
refulgentis 3y ago
There isn't really a reason to expect a significant effect, in practice, Tesla COGS/unit plateaued a few 100K ago. It's a bit too abstract and high-level. Batteries specifically does make sense, ex. Model X has 100 kWh battery. if I price out 100 kWh at $200 right now (high) and its $100 a decade from now, about $20K. "Software" is hand-waving. Electric motors being easier does make sense.

dzhiurgis 3y ago

Both of your examples are kind of monopolies Is there any car software that’s “open”?

adolph 3y ago
openpilot is an open source advanced driver assistance system that works on 250+ car models of Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and many other brands https://www.comma.ai/openpilot https://www.comma.ai/openpilot
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Can I run their software on Tesla?
  - adolph 3y ago
    There are examples of this, yes [0]. The phrase "run . . . on Tesla" might have different meanings. OpenPilot is not installed directly on the Tesla hardware (as far as I'm aware). OpenPilot runs on separate hardware that communicates over the car's network, typically CAN bus [1]. An analogy might be attaching USB devices to a laptop, which has its own video, sound, keyboard, and pointer; but for which a user might desire some other feedback and control method. 0. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/say-hello-to-an-fsd-ap-alternative-comma-openpilot-oss-vehicle-autonomy.266886/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/say-hello-to-an-fsd-... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

doctor_eval 3y ago

ICEs have software too, including multiple units to manage the various ICE systems that an EV doesn’t need.

silvestrov 3y ago

You forget that CDs were much more expensive than LPs even when CDs were cheaper to produce and distribute. The music companies simply got too greedy and now their market has imploded and most people only pay for Spotify. We might get a rerun of asian producers dominating the car market and making a panic in USA car makers.