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She brings an example of a person who after sending 75 applications considers changing fields. On Reddit people are sending more than 1000 applications to get a

She brings an example of a person who after sending 75 applications considers changing fields. On Reddit people are sending more than 1000 applications to get a job.

joshuamcginnis 3y ago
I recently stumbled upon a freelance gig from someone looking to hire someone to submit applications for software engineering positions on their behalf. They were willing to pay a few dollars per application and would provide all of the content for the submitter.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Where did you find it? This sounds like a tempting service! I’d love to have an “agent” who would deal with all the drudgery of finding me a job and screening companies (and even interviewing on my behalf if that was even possible), and would probably be willing to pay multiple tens of thousands of dollars for this service next time I job hop. It would have to be more than a typical hired recruiter who just periodically sends me a few job listings and said “whaddayathink?” It would have to be: “Here’s my comp. Get me to a job offer paying comp+$50k and I’ll pay you $25k.”
paxys 3y ago
If you get rejected by the first 5-10 companies you apply to then you need to take a step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, because spamming the same resume to 1000 more companies isn't going to change anything. 5 strong leads is infinitely better than 1000 weak ones.
- esafak 3y ago
  You don't have any feedback to improve your approach other than the fact that you did not get a response.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    True - but in most cases you can get feedback another way. Case in point, a buddy of mine is around 50, superstar programmer/manager and never really had to look for a job - was always headhunted - until getting laid off from a bank about a year ago. I took one look at his resume and it was obvious to me that it was basically the same resume he had since College, with new jobs tacked on but never revamped to read like a "super senior resume." Which makes sense because he never had to rely on it to make a first impression. It took me about 20 minutes with Google Docs comments to tag up his resume, took him about 2 days to totally revamp it, and go from "a guy with 30 experience who looks junior on paper" to "holly shit this is the engineering leader we need." Perhaps coincidentally but he landed a role with a hedge fund very quickly. That's obviously a personal anecdote, but if your job applications are failing to get traction, find SOME way to get an external perspective.
  - ohdannyboy 3y ago
    Is there anyone in your network you can ask? Even reddit is willing to give you feedback.
- evilduck 3y ago
  If someone can stomach 1000 cold contacts and no results, that person should consider switching to sales.
- 10xDev 3y ago
  Definitely not true in my experience. I have witnessed very little consistency, it seems most applications are simply automatically filtered using many variables that no one is going to figure out. But you could argue that applications are automatically filtered because of the spam, but at the same time if you don't spam depending on your position you are a lost cause. It is terrible system that feeds on itself.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Right, but you should figure out what those variables are.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Negative, ghost rider. I’ve had a fairly consistent 100:10:1 application:interview:offer ratio for about 25 years, including bull and bear markets. It’s a numbers game. There is likely nothing wrong with his resume. You need to have a very wide top-of-the-funnel. There are probably a few Captains Of Industry here on HN who can send 5 resumes out and get 5 offers. These are multiple-standard-deviation outliers.
  - atrettel 3y ago
    I've had roughly that same application:interview:offer ratio for the last 5 years. It's made me realize that it's a numbers game too. I've gotten comments from colleagues about how putting out a hundred applications seems kinda desperate, but with the ratios that I've experienced, the only way that you can make the odds that you get a job palatable is to increase the number of applications. It's easy to run the binomial distribution analysis to prove this.
  - ohyes 3y ago
    I have sent exactly 3 applications in my career and been hired 4 times.
    - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
      Then you're either not American, very well-connected, or you graduated during a bull market and always had the "right" amount of experience.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        The only way I can even imagine this to be possible is 1. Your name is John Carmack or Ken Thompson or 2. You send your application out at the top of every single hiring bubble in history. Sorry, but I almost just don’t believe OP. It seems totally ridiculous and opposite to my lived experience over decades. Ive probably sent roughly 500 resumes out over a 25 year career and got 5 job offers. Never even two simultaneous offers allowing me to choose. The ratio has been very, very consistent for me.
- ZoomerCretin 3y ago
  Are you speaking from experience in a job market not in the US? This is absolutely the experience of junior engineers.
- ohdannyboy 3y ago
  My company is hiring a senior Python dev and we've rejected at least 95% of applications so far. Many weren't even Python devs, most weren't senior (no, getting that title 2 years out of college doesn't count) and some had resumes so off-putting we just said "this person is full of shit." We actually discussed adding a survey question that read "Answer 'no' to this question" to see if they even read the page. So many freaking shotgun applicants. I wonder how many of those people are saying "I've applied to X jobs and nothing!" Had they gotten feedback or maybe read the job listing they wouldn't have added our posting to their volume count.
  - giancarlostoro 3y ago
    Python dev to work on what? ;)
  - dr_kiszonka 3y ago
    I ask people to rename their resume file to follow a very specific filename template. Maybe 1/3 of the applicants do it and I think I have had more luck with them than with those who ignored my instructions. (It is a simple template and as long as folks at least try to follow it, it is fine with me.)
  - jacknews 3y ago
    The problem as an applicant is that after sending, say 30,40,50 carefully considered applications, spending up to several hours on each, and getting almost no response, you change tactics. There's no point crafting a love letter which won't even be read - just stick a bunch of bullet points together and broadcast.
    - ohdannyboy 3y ago
      Several hours definitely isn't required. If you are a good match for a job your resume should already be a stand out, so all you need to do is read the listing and submit your resume (plus whatever HR system hoops they make you jump through). Anecdotally, I typically get a high response rate when I'm choosey and have never wrote a cover letter or anything specific to the job in question. Why would I need to write a love letter for a position I'm well qualified for? I'm the prize, not them haha. Changing tactics to blindly applying for positions regardless of qualifications is just a waste of time. I for one wouldn't want an engineer who solves problems like that on the team.

She brings an example of a person who after sending 75 applications considers changing fields. On Reddit people are sending more than 1000 applications to get a job.

joshuamcginnis 3y ago

I recently stumbled upon a freelance gig from someone looking to hire someone to submit applications for software engineering positions on their behalf. They were willing to pay a few dollars per application and would provide all of the content for the submitter.

ryandrake 3y ago
Where did you find it? This sounds like a tempting service! I’d love to have an “agent” who would deal with all the drudgery of finding me a job and screening companies (and even interviewing on my behalf if that was even possible), and would probably be willing to pay multiple tens of thousands of dollars for this service next time I job hop. It would have to be more than a typical hired recruiter who just periodically sends me a few job listings and said “whaddayathink?” It would have to be: “Here’s my comp. Get me to a job offer paying comp+$50k and I’ll pay you $25k.”

paxys 3y ago

If you get rejected by the first 5-10 companies you apply to then you need to take a step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, because spamming the same resume to 1000 more companies isn't going to change anything. 5 strong leads is infinitely better than 1000 weak ones.

esafak 3y ago
You don't have any feedback to improve your approach other than the fact that you did not get a response.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  True - but in most cases you can get feedback another way. Case in point, a buddy of mine is around 50, superstar programmer/manager and never really had to look for a job - was always headhunted - until getting laid off from a bank about a year ago. I took one look at his resume and it was obvious to me that it was basically the same resume he had since College, with new jobs tacked on but never revamped to read like a "super senior resume." Which makes sense because he never had to rely on it to make a first impression. It took me about 20 minutes with Google Docs comments to tag up his resume, took him about 2 days to totally revamp it, and go from "a guy with 30 experience who looks junior on paper" to "holly shit this is the engineering leader we need." Perhaps coincidentally but he landed a role with a hedge fund very quickly. That's obviously a personal anecdote, but if your job applications are failing to get traction, find SOME way to get an external perspective.
- ohdannyboy 3y ago
  Is there anyone in your network you can ask? Even reddit is willing to give you feedback.
evilduck 3y ago
If someone can stomach 1000 cold contacts and no results, that person should consider switching to sales.
10xDev 3y ago
Definitely not true in my experience. I have witnessed very little consistency, it seems most applications are simply automatically filtered using many variables that no one is going to figure out. But you could argue that applications are automatically filtered because of the spam, but at the same time if you don't spam depending on your position you are a lost cause. It is terrible system that feeds on itself.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Right, but you should figure out what those variables are.
ryandrake 3y ago
Negative, ghost rider. I’ve had a fairly consistent 100:10:1 application:interview:offer ratio for about 25 years, including bull and bear markets. It’s a numbers game. There is likely nothing wrong with his resume. You need to have a very wide top-of-the-funnel. There are probably a few Captains Of Industry here on HN who can send 5 resumes out and get 5 offers. These are multiple-standard-deviation outliers.
- atrettel 3y ago
  I've had roughly that same application:interview:offer ratio for the last 5 years. It's made me realize that it's a numbers game too. I've gotten comments from colleagues about how putting out a hundred applications seems kinda desperate, but with the ratios that I've experienced, the only way that you can make the odds that you get a job palatable is to increase the number of applications. It's easy to run the binomial distribution analysis to prove this.
- ohyes 3y ago
  I have sent exactly 3 applications in my career and been hired 4 times.
  - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
    Then you're either not American, very well-connected, or you graduated during a bull market and always had the "right" amount of experience.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      The only way I can even imagine this to be possible is 1. Your name is John Carmack or Ken Thompson or 2. You send your application out at the top of every single hiring bubble in history. Sorry, but I almost just don’t believe OP. It seems totally ridiculous and opposite to my lived experience over decades. Ive probably sent roughly 500 resumes out over a 25 year career and got 5 job offers. Never even two simultaneous offers allowing me to choose. The ratio has been very, very consistent for me.
ZoomerCretin 3y ago
Are you speaking from experience in a job market not in the US? This is absolutely the experience of junior engineers.
ohdannyboy 3y ago
My company is hiring a senior Python dev and we've rejected at least 95% of applications so far. Many weren't even Python devs, most weren't senior (no, getting that title 2 years out of college doesn't count) and some had resumes so off-putting we just said "this person is full of shit." We actually discussed adding a survey question that read "Answer 'no' to this question" to see if they even read the page. So many freaking shotgun applicants. I wonder how many of those people are saying "I've applied to X jobs and nothing!" Had they gotten feedback or maybe read the job listing they wouldn't have added our posting to their volume count.
- giancarlostoro 3y ago
  Python dev to work on what? ;)
- dr_kiszonka 3y ago
  I ask people to rename their resume file to follow a very specific filename template. Maybe 1/3 of the applicants do it and I think I have had more luck with them than with those who ignored my instructions. (It is a simple template and as long as folks at least try to follow it, it is fine with me.)
- jacknews 3y ago
  The problem as an applicant is that after sending, say 30,40,50 carefully considered applications, spending up to several hours on each, and getting almost no response, you change tactics. There's no point crafting a love letter which won't even be read - just stick a bunch of bullet points together and broadcast.
  - ohdannyboy 3y ago
    Several hours definitely isn't required. If you are a good match for a job your resume should already be a stand out, so all you need to do is read the listing and submit your resume (plus whatever HR system hoops they make you jump through). Anecdotally, I typically get a high response rate when I'm choosey and have never wrote a cover letter or anything specific to the job in question. Why would I need to write a love letter for a position I'm well qualified for? I'm the prize, not them haha. Changing tactics to blindly applying for positions regardless of qualifications is just a waste of time. I for one wouldn't want an engineer who solves problems like that on the team.