3 ms·

This only makes sense if re.search accepted a line to search. It doesn't. It accepts an arbitrary string. Which is fine because lines are a subset of strings.

This only makes sense if re.search accepted a line to search. It doesn't. It accepts an arbitrary string. Which is fine because lines are a subset of strings. And whether you want your input treated as a line or a string is decided by your pattern, use ^ and $ and it will be treated as a line, use \A and \Z and it will be treated as a string. The first `\n` in `cat\n\n` is a terminating newline. There just happens to be one after it. Look at where this is coming from. You do line-based stuff, there is either no newline at all or there is exactly one newline at the end. You do file-based stuff, there are many newlines. In both cases the behavior of ^ and $ makes perfect sense. Now you come along with cat\n\n which clearly falls into the file-based stuff category as it has more than one newline in it but you also insist that it is not multiple lines. If it is not multiple lines, then only the last character can be a newline, otherwise it would be multiple lines. And I get it, yes, you can throw arbitrary strings at a regular expression, this line-based processing is not everything, but it explains why things behave the way they do. And that is also why people added \A and \Z. And I understand that ^ and $ are much nicer and much better known than \A and \Z. Maybe the best option would be to have a separate flag that makes them synonymous with \A and \Z and this could maybe even be the default.

burntsushi 3y ago
> And whether you want your input treated as a line or a string is decided by your pattern, use ^ and $ and it will be treated as a line, use \A and \Z and it will be treated as a string. Where is this semantic explained in the `re` module docs? This is totally and completely made up as far as I can tell. This also seems entirely consistent with my rebuttal: Me: What you're saying makes sense if condition foo holds. You: Condition foo holds. This is uninteresting to me because I see no reason to believe that condition foo holds. Where condition foo is "the input to re.search is expected to be a single line." Or more precisely, apparently, "the input to re.search is expected to be a single line when either ^ or $ appear in the pattern." That is totally bonkers. > but it explains why things behave the way they do Firstly, I am not debating with you about the historical reasoning for this. Secondly, I am providing a commentary on the semantics themselves (they suck) and also on your explanation of them in today's context (it doesn't make sense). Thirdly, I am not making a prescriptive argument that established regex engines should change their behavior in any way. If you're looking to explain why this semantic is the way it is, then I'd expect writing from the original implementors of it. Probably in Perl. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was an "oops" or if it was implemented in a strictly-line-oriented context, and then someone else decided to keep it unthinkingly when they moved to a non-line-oriented context. From there, compatibility takes over as a reason for why it's with us today.
- danbruc 3y ago
  I quoted the section from the Python module here. [1] If you do not specify multi-line, bar$ matches a lines ending in bar, either foobar\n or foobar if the terminating newline has been removed or does not exist. If you specify multi-line, then it will also match at every bar\n within the string. So it either treats your input as a single line or as multiple lines. You can of course not specify multi-line and still pass in a string with additional newlines within the string, but then those newlines will be treated more or less as any other character, bar$ will not match bar\n\n. The exception is that dot will not match them except you set the single-line/dot-all flag, bar\n$ will match bar\n\n but bar.$ will not unless you specify the single-line/dot-all flag. I would even agree with you that it seems a bit weird. If you have a proper line without additional newlines in the middle, then multi-line behaves exactly like not multi-line. Not multi-line only behaves differently if you confront it with multiple lines and I have no good idea how you would end up in a situation where you have multiple lines and want to treat them as one unit but still treat the entire thing as if it was a line. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39765086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39765086
  - burntsushi 3y ago
    The docs do not say what you're saying. Your phrasing is completely different, and the part where "if ^/$ are in the pattern then the haystack is treated as a single line" is completely made up. As far as I can tell, that's your rationalization for how to make sense of this behavior. But it is not a story supported by the actual regex engine docs. The actual docs say, "^ matches only at the beginning of the string, and $ matches only at the end of the string and immediately before the newline (if any) at the end of the string." The docs do not say, "the string is treated as a single line when ^/$ are used in the pattern." That's your phrasing, not anyone else's. That's your story, not theirs. I still have not seen anything from you that makes sense of the behavior that `cat$` does not match `cat\n\n`. Like, I realize you've tried to explain it. But your explanation does not make sense. That's because the behavior is strange. The only actual way to explain the behavior of $ is what the `re` docs say: it either matches at the end of the string or just before a `\n` that appears at the end of the string. That's it.

burntsushi 3y ago

> And whether you want your input treated as a line or a string is decided by your pattern, use ^ and $ and it will be treated as a line, use \A and \Z and it will be treated as a string. Where is this semantic explained in the `re` module docs? This is totally and completely made up as far as I can tell. This also seems entirely consistent with my rebuttal: Me: What you're saying makes sense if condition foo holds. You: Condition foo holds. This is uninteresting to me because I see no reason to believe that condition foo holds. Where condition foo is "the input to re.search is expected to be a single line." Or more precisely, apparently, "the input to re.search is expected to be a single line when either ^ or $ appear in the pattern." That is totally bonkers. > but it explains why things behave the way they do Firstly, I am not debating with you about the historical reasoning for this. Secondly, I am providing a commentary on the semantics themselves (they suck) and also on your explanation of them in today's context (it doesn't make sense). Thirdly, I am not making a prescriptive argument that established regex engines should change their behavior in any way. If you're looking to explain why this semantic is the way it is, then I'd expect writing from the original implementors of it. Probably in Perl. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was an "oops" or if it was implemented in a strictly-line-oriented context, and then someone else decided to keep it unthinkingly when they moved to a non-line-oriented context. From there, compatibility takes over as a reason for why it's with us today.

danbruc 3y ago
I quoted the section from the Python module here. [1] If you do not specify multi-line, bar$ matches a lines ending in bar, either foobar\n or foobar if the terminating newline has been removed or does not exist. If you specify multi-line, then it will also match at every bar\n within the string. So it either treats your input as a single line or as multiple lines. You can of course not specify multi-line and still pass in a string with additional newlines within the string, but then those newlines will be treated more or less as any other character, bar$ will not match bar\n\n. The exception is that dot will not match them except you set the single-line/dot-all flag, bar\n$ will match bar\n\n but bar.$ will not unless you specify the single-line/dot-all flag. I would even agree with you that it seems a bit weird. If you have a proper line without additional newlines in the middle, then multi-line behaves exactly like not multi-line. Not multi-line only behaves differently if you confront it with multiple lines and I have no good idea how you would end up in a situation where you have multiple lines and want to treat them as one unit but still treat the entire thing as if it was a line. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39765086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39765086
- burntsushi 3y ago
  The docs do not say what you're saying. Your phrasing is completely different, and the part where "if ^/$ are in the pattern then the haystack is treated as a single line" is completely made up. As far as I can tell, that's your rationalization for how to make sense of this behavior. But it is not a story supported by the actual regex engine docs. The actual docs say, "^ matches only at the beginning of the string, and $ matches only at the end of the string and immediately before the newline (if any) at the end of the string." The docs do not say, "the string is treated as a single line when ^/$ are used in the pattern." That's your phrasing, not anyone else's. That's your story, not theirs. I still have not seen anything from you that makes sense of the behavior that `cat$` does not match `cat\n\n`. Like, I realize you've tried to explain it. But your explanation does not make sense. That's because the behavior is strange. The only actual way to explain the behavior of $ is what the `re` docs say: it either matches at the end of the string or just before a `\n` that appears at the end of the string. That's it.