5 ms·

Are they organically unhappy, which is to say for good reasons, or have they been made unhappy by being constantly online?

aurareturn 3y ago
I personally think that it's because Gen Z and Millennials have had a much harder time affording rent and a mortgage. So organically based on your definition. I actually know a lot millennials and Gen Z who have given up the dream of owning a home because they'd have to work a lifetime to afford one. Instead, they're living the "YOLO Instagram life" because they don't think it's worth it work like a slave just to own a home and have nothing else.
- laylower 3y ago
  yeah - who knew that being barely able to cover your basic needs but nothing else would cause the younger generation to be less optimistic about the future? Preposterous I tell you!
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Would be interesting to check the numbers when controlling for income/affluence. Intuitively I actually think that the "always online" thing is a big part of it, but don't have any numbers to back that up. There's a few things that happen on social media that make me think this. First, there's a lot of "aspirational" content - "unboxing" expensive clothes, cars, etc. People hanging out in fancy houses or going to exotic locales. All of this is classic marketing stuff and IIRC has been linked to unhappiness in the past. Second, there's constant political hyperbole online. Though maybe it's just the filter bubbles I hang out with. It's difficult to be happy when it seems that everyone is trying to convince you that the world will end if the next election doesn't go a certain way. Finally, and this probably applies to younger people more, there's a flood of unrealistic body/face imagery on social media. While there were examples of this before (fashion/fitness mags) it seems harder to escape now. It's especially bad when you hear stories of people getting plastic surgery to look like the facetune version of themselves[1]. Now the aspirational image is not someone else - it's literally yourself run through photoshop. [1] https://time.com/5357262/snapchat-plastic-surgery/ https://time.com/5357262/snapchat-plastic-surgery/
- billy99k 3y ago
  I can see Gen Z having issues, but I'm a millennial and I bought my house 9 years ago. Homes were very affordable. Rent for me from college -> this time was also very affordable. I heard the same arguments 10+ years ago: things are too expensive/I can never afford a house, when it just wasn't true. "because they don't think it's worth it work like a slave just to own a home and have nothing else." Too many people I knew in college partied and spent all of their money on booze, drugs, and the latest gadgets for years during college and many years after. I saved my money and never had the latest smart phone until a few years ago. I don't think I went on a single vacation (besides some weekend trips) during my 20s.
  - brailsafe 3y ago
    These sorts of anecdotes don't seem so useful without more demographic and geographic context. When I moved into my first rental at 23 in 2015 in a suburb of Vancouver, the owners of the new condo were probably also millennial, just on the upper end. I was paying ~1450 CAD which was relatively very high for the time, but I couldn't find another viable place and was already by that time stuck in a monthly airbnb. They said they bought it for around ~250k. Not necessarily an extreme amount, if I already had years of income and luck on my side. Fast forward to post-pandemic, and now I have even less in absolute dollars, while the same place has more than doubled in price, and rent has probably increased by about $800/m. Now 32, prosperity of normie standards pretty much seems out the door, so instead I'll occasionally spend a bit more on adventure, but much less frivolously than I think boomers and home-owning millennials tend to. The cost of a 2 weeker in a different continent can be less than the tax on a car. Fwiw I've also always been extremely frugal, but do now value my community more than money, because when you lose your job or face real hardship, you'll need the people you were already investing your time in. Whether a millennial owns a home or now comes down to a few factors; what do they earn, how long have they earned it, where do they live, and did they get inheritance. If you've never lost a job, live in a LCOL area, are frugal, and got in earlier, great.
  - k8svet 3y ago
    > I'm a millennial and I bought my house 9 years ago. Homes were very affordable. And then, what? You stopped looking at interest rates and wages? You magically became an honorary "I got mine" boomer when the real estate agent handed you the keys? > I don't think I went on a single vacation (besides some weekend trips) during my 20s. My reduction in consumption of avocado toast has, predictably, done fuck all for lowering interest rates or increasing housing supply.
silverquiet 3y ago
Good reasons implies that there are bad reasons, but I'd think there are just reasons. I suppose one question I would ask is are Gen Z and Millennials more online than Gen X and Boomers? I suppose that's the stereotype, but Facebook also has the reputation as a Boomer site these days; certainly my mother is a fan. And Boomers are not Greatest/Silent Generation - my dad bought a 486 in the 90's and told me not to tell my mom how much he spent, despite not needing one for any real practical reason. Boomers aren't helpless around technology; their generation invented most of the modern incarnations of it, and they had to learn to use it throughout their careers.
tamimio 3y ago
Let's recap some potential reasons: - Inability to afford a house during their lifetime leaves them with the sole options of living with parents or renting with housemates. - Significant artificial inflation in consumer goods, no solution in sight. - A troubled job market: low wages, lack of employee protection or rights, no mandated paid time off, or unlimited sick leave. Attempts to unionize can result in termination. - A challenging dating scene, influenced by numerous factors. - Same in the political scene, where left/right, red/blue parties are irrelevant because nothing is changing. - A decline in community engagement or lack of, with online platforms and technology playing a role, though not exclusively. These are just a few examples. Now, take a look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we can see how these issues undermine the basic three levels, including the safety of shelter, employment, belonging, etc., and then you see some articles like this as if it is a surprise why it is the case.. unfortunately, the older generation screwed up and failed the new one.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Also: - Remote work being pulled by ancient management (average age of US F500 CEO is 58) even though quality of life bump is proven. - If kids are desired, they cost $310k 0-18 (Brookings Institute 2023) each, not including daycare and college. EDIT: - Climate change data and early impacts being realized. > unfortunately, the older generation screwed up and failed the new one. This is the crux. Great comment overall. Society grows great when trees are planted whose shade we won't sit in; instead, we clear cut the place. A whole cohort is trapped in a dysfunctional socioeconomic system they didn't build, but are forced to exist in. Would you be happy? Related: https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/world-happiness-america-low-list-countries https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/world-happiness-america-low... ("Axios: U.S. hits new low in World Happiness Report")
  - charlieKilo 3y ago
    I noticed recently on HN lots of talking about cancelling remote working, introduced as a temporary measure to fight COVID. I am wondering, if working from home is here to stay, wouldn't companies start hiring talents from global market rather then paying extra for US employees if they still work remotely? Is it not "wiser" from the company point of view to hire talented people for instance from Eastern Europe which have more competitive salary expectations (due to lower cost of living) than American counterparts?

aurareturn 3y ago

I personally think that it's because Gen Z and Millennials have had a much harder time affording rent and a mortgage. So organically based on your definition. I actually know a lot millennials and Gen Z who have given up the dream of owning a home because they'd have to work a lifetime to afford one. Instead, they're living the "YOLO Instagram life" because they don't think it's worth it work like a slave just to own a home and have nothing else.

laylower 3y ago
yeah - who knew that being barely able to cover your basic needs but nothing else would cause the younger generation to be less optimistic about the future? Preposterous I tell you!
AlexandrB 3y ago
Would be interesting to check the numbers when controlling for income/affluence. Intuitively I actually think that the "always online" thing is a big part of it, but don't have any numbers to back that up. There's a few things that happen on social media that make me think this. First, there's a lot of "aspirational" content - "unboxing" expensive clothes, cars, etc. People hanging out in fancy houses or going to exotic locales. All of this is classic marketing stuff and IIRC has been linked to unhappiness in the past. Second, there's constant political hyperbole online. Though maybe it's just the filter bubbles I hang out with. It's difficult to be happy when it seems that everyone is trying to convince you that the world will end if the next election doesn't go a certain way. Finally, and this probably applies to younger people more, there's a flood of unrealistic body/face imagery on social media. While there were examples of this before (fashion/fitness mags) it seems harder to escape now. It's especially bad when you hear stories of people getting plastic surgery to look like the facetune version of themselves[1]. Now the aspirational image is not someone else - it's literally yourself run through photoshop. [1] https://time.com/5357262/snapchat-plastic-surgery/ https://time.com/5357262/snapchat-plastic-surgery/
billy99k 3y ago
I can see Gen Z having issues, but I'm a millennial and I bought my house 9 years ago. Homes were very affordable. Rent for me from college -> this time was also very affordable. I heard the same arguments 10+ years ago: things are too expensive/I can never afford a house, when it just wasn't true. "because they don't think it's worth it work like a slave just to own a home and have nothing else." Too many people I knew in college partied and spent all of their money on booze, drugs, and the latest gadgets for years during college and many years after. I saved my money and never had the latest smart phone until a few years ago. I don't think I went on a single vacation (besides some weekend trips) during my 20s.
- brailsafe 3y ago
  These sorts of anecdotes don't seem so useful without more demographic and geographic context. When I moved into my first rental at 23 in 2015 in a suburb of Vancouver, the owners of the new condo were probably also millennial, just on the upper end. I was paying ~1450 CAD which was relatively very high for the time, but I couldn't find another viable place and was already by that time stuck in a monthly airbnb. They said they bought it for around ~250k. Not necessarily an extreme amount, if I already had years of income and luck on my side. Fast forward to post-pandemic, and now I have even less in absolute dollars, while the same place has more than doubled in price, and rent has probably increased by about $800/m. Now 32, prosperity of normie standards pretty much seems out the door, so instead I'll occasionally spend a bit more on adventure, but much less frivolously than I think boomers and home-owning millennials tend to. The cost of a 2 weeker in a different continent can be less than the tax on a car. Fwiw I've also always been extremely frugal, but do now value my community more than money, because when you lose your job or face real hardship, you'll need the people you were already investing your time in. Whether a millennial owns a home or now comes down to a few factors; what do they earn, how long have they earned it, where do they live, and did they get inheritance. If you've never lost a job, live in a LCOL area, are frugal, and got in earlier, great.
- k8svet 3y ago
  > I'm a millennial and I bought my house 9 years ago. Homes were very affordable. And then, what? You stopped looking at interest rates and wages? You magically became an honorary "I got mine" boomer when the real estate agent handed you the keys? > I don't think I went on a single vacation (besides some weekend trips) during my 20s. My reduction in consumption of avocado toast has, predictably, done fuck all for lowering interest rates or increasing housing supply.

silverquiet 3y ago

Good reasons implies that there are bad reasons, but I'd think there are just reasons. I suppose one question I would ask is are Gen Z and Millennials more online than Gen X and Boomers? I suppose that's the stereotype, but Facebook also has the reputation as a Boomer site these days; certainly my mother is a fan. And Boomers are not Greatest/Silent Generation - my dad bought a 486 in the 90's and told me not to tell my mom how much he spent, despite not needing one for any real practical reason. Boomers aren't helpless around technology; their generation invented most of the modern incarnations of it, and they had to learn to use it throughout their careers.

tamimio 3y ago

Let's recap some potential reasons: - Inability to afford a house during their lifetime leaves them with the sole options of living with parents or renting with housemates. - Significant artificial inflation in consumer goods, no solution in sight. - A troubled job market: low wages, lack of employee protection or rights, no mandated paid time off, or unlimited sick leave. Attempts to unionize can result in termination. - A challenging dating scene, influenced by numerous factors. - Same in the political scene, where left/right, red/blue parties are irrelevant because nothing is changing. - A decline in community engagement or lack of, with online platforms and technology playing a role, though not exclusively. These are just a few examples. Now, take a look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we can see how these issues undermine the basic three levels, including the safety of shelter, employment, belonging, etc., and then you see some articles like this as if it is a surprise why it is the case.. unfortunately, the older generation screwed up and failed the new one.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Also: - Remote work being pulled by ancient management (average age of US F500 CEO is 58) even though quality of life bump is proven. - If kids are desired, they cost $310k 0-18 (Brookings Institute 2023) each, not including daycare and college. EDIT: - Climate change data and early impacts being realized. > unfortunately, the older generation screwed up and failed the new one. This is the crux. Great comment overall. Society grows great when trees are planted whose shade we won't sit in; instead, we clear cut the place. A whole cohort is trapped in a dysfunctional socioeconomic system they didn't build, but are forced to exist in. Would you be happy? Related: https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/world-happiness-america-low-list-countries https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/world-happiness-america-low... ("Axios: U.S. hits new low in World Happiness Report")
- charlieKilo 3y ago
  I noticed recently on HN lots of talking about cancelling remote working, introduced as a temporary measure to fight COVID. I am wondering, if working from home is here to stay, wouldn't companies start hiring talents from global market rather then paying extra for US employees if they still work remotely? Is it not "wiser" from the company point of view to hire talented people for instance from Eastern Europe which have more competitive salary expectations (due to lower cost of living) than American counterparts?