5 ms·

I was pretty stuck by that, too, and it made me wonder if maybe I don't understand or underestimate the value of paper transmission. I suppose if radio communic

I was pretty stuck by that, too, and it made me wonder if maybe I don't understand or underestimate the value of paper transmission. I suppose if radio communication is good but flaky, or for persistence of instruction, like procedures, then it would be good for them to be able to print. But at such a cost!

willcipriano 3y ago
[flagged]
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  This is true, but in hindsight only a partial success. A good chunk of the communists weren't. :-/
  - a_gnostic 3y ago
    Communism is the very definition of failure. Return, refit, and redeploy to purge the stain of this failure with the peroxide of victory!
krisoft 3y ago
I guess with modern googles one would just pack an "ipad" equivalent tablet. If one worries about accidents and freak space particles disabling it give them 3. If one still worries one can develop a "space rated" tablet. But probably at those radiation levels one should also start worrying about the crew's health. But of course that is projecting our current capabilities back in time. I looked it up and the "Osborne 1" portable computer[1] was just released 9 days before the shuttle's first flight. It weighed 24.5 lb (11.1 kg) and could display 52 x 24 characters on a small CRT. So yeah, that would not be nice to read manuals with :D 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1
- generj 3y ago
  Right it clearly was the best choice for the time the shuttle was developed but just shows how removed from the 1960s and 70s we are today. My earlier point about payload weight was probably the wrong focus. Mission success and maximizing what the crew can accomplish in orbit are greatly facilitated by one way text from ground control, and doubtlessly paid for the 60 pounds Astronauts were already used to Telex weather reports as pilots so existing UX. And the crew specialists all had PhDs and thus were experts at reading typed paper. So no training on yet another shuttle subsystem. The teletype could be effectively shared between crew - just tear off the paper. A portable computer could only be used by one or two people, AND would need to be radiation hardened and aerospace qualified.
- amelius 3y ago
  iPads are more hazardous than you think: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/07/14/fatal-helicopter-crash-likely-caused-by-dropped-ipad https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/07/14/fatal-helicopter-...
  - kayodelycaon 3y ago
    Not really an iPad-specific issue. A clipboard or checklist could have done the same thing.
dylan604 3y ago
Maybe they remember the situation with Apollo 13 where they had no way to right down the procedures other than by hand and using space pages from the existing printed documents. You then had the issue where the guys were so fatigued and CO2 levels getting to a point of making vision blurry. I could see where that might have factored into the decision of wanting to avoid all of that with the ability of printing new/modified procedures.
- dylan604 3y ago
  too late to edit, but right != write <hangsHeadInShame>
shagie 3y ago
Remember that this was also before easily portable electronics. Today you'd get a PDF and store it on your iPad. Secure it for landing and you're good. All the documents you want. In the 80s consider the "Mission Control has new landing procedures that you need to follow. Here is a 42 item check list that you'll need to do before initiating task 357 from the mission specification." How do you get that 42 item check list? Do you write it down? What that transcribed properly? Was that a P or a B that the person heard over the radio? (Yes, I know Bravo Papa). Here's a secret objective for the mission ( https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20110023479/downloads/20110023479.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20110023479/downloads/20... ) to preform while in orbit that has now been approved and was not part of the initial mission profile. The instructions will be printed out and are for the captain and pilots eyes only. There are a number of reasons that one may need a secure printer to handle new documents while on the Space Shuttle. With 70s and 80s tech, the approach taken is reasonable.

willcipriano 3y ago

[flagged]

actionfromafar 3y ago
This is true, but in hindsight only a partial success. A good chunk of the communists weren't. :-/
- a_gnostic 3y ago
  Communism is the very definition of failure. Return, refit, and redeploy to purge the stain of this failure with the peroxide of victory!

krisoft 3y ago

I guess with modern googles one would just pack an "ipad" equivalent tablet. If one worries about accidents and freak space particles disabling it give them 3. If one still worries one can develop a "space rated" tablet. But probably at those radiation levels one should also start worrying about the crew's health. But of course that is projecting our current capabilities back in time. I looked it up and the "Osborne 1" portable computer[1] was just released 9 days before the shuttle's first flight. It weighed 24.5 lb (11.1 kg) and could display 52 x 24 characters on a small CRT. So yeah, that would not be nice to read manuals with :D 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1

generj 3y ago
Right it clearly was the best choice for the time the shuttle was developed but just shows how removed from the 1960s and 70s we are today. My earlier point about payload weight was probably the wrong focus. Mission success and maximizing what the crew can accomplish in orbit are greatly facilitated by one way text from ground control, and doubtlessly paid for the 60 pounds Astronauts were already used to Telex weather reports as pilots so existing UX. And the crew specialists all had PhDs and thus were experts at reading typed paper. So no training on yet another shuttle subsystem. The teletype could be effectively shared between crew - just tear off the paper. A portable computer could only be used by one or two people, AND would need to be radiation hardened and aerospace qualified.
amelius 3y ago
iPads are more hazardous than you think: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/07/14/fatal-helicopter-crash-likely-caused-by-dropped-ipad https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/07/14/fatal-helicopter-...
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  Not really an iPad-specific issue. A clipboard or checklist could have done the same thing.

dylan604 3y ago

Maybe they remember the situation with Apollo 13 where they had no way to right down the procedures other than by hand and using space pages from the existing printed documents. You then had the issue where the guys were so fatigued and CO2 levels getting to a point of making vision blurry. I could see where that might have factored into the decision of wanting to avoid all of that with the ability of printing new/modified procedures.

dylan604 3y ago
too late to edit, but right != write <hangsHeadInShame>

shagie 3y ago

Remember that this was also before easily portable electronics. Today you'd get a PDF and store it on your iPad. Secure it for landing and you're good. All the documents you want. In the 80s consider the "Mission Control has new landing procedures that you need to follow. Here is a 42 item check list that you'll need to do before initiating task 357 from the mission specification." How do you get that 42 item check list? Do you write it down? What that transcribed properly? Was that a P or a B that the person heard over the radio? (Yes, I know Bravo Papa). Here's a secret objective for the mission ( https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20110023479/downloads/20110023479.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20110023479/downloads/20... ) to preform while in orbit that has now been approved and was not part of the initial mission profile. The instructions will be printed out and are for the captain and pilots eyes only. There are a number of reasons that one may need a secure printer to handle new documents while on the Space Shuttle. With 70s and 80s tech, the approach taken is reasonable.