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> I've never seen anyone who's obese and having a diet that made me go "huh that's odd how can they be obese?" Your question isn't refuting OPs claim: the peop

> I've never seen anyone who's obese and having a diet that made me go "huh that's odd how can they be obese?" Your question isn't refuting OPs claim: the people you are observing to be fat are fat because of their carb/sugar intake, not fat. i.e. if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; it is the sugar and carbs that make them fat.

jlhf 3y ago
No they wouldn’t stay lean. If you fed someone more calories than their body uses to maintain its current weight, they would get fat eventually. Regardless of whether they eat carbs, fat or protein.
- kuschkufan 3y ago
  Let's say you're being fed just the amount of calories your body needs to maintain. What influence on body fat has the distribution of carbs, protein and fat from food then?
  - jlhf 3y ago
    My point was that regardless of what you eat, if you eat more than your body expends, some of the excess will be used to produce fat and you will gain weight. If you lead a sedentary lifestyle and eat 3000 calories of nothing but lean meat per day, you will gain weight. You are right that different foods (macronutrients, more specifically) have different thermic effects and therefore require different amounts of energy to metabolise. Protein takes more energy to process than fat. This does not change my overall point.
  - lobocinza 3y ago
    Not much for getting lean but it's easier to overeat carbs and fats are calorie dense. That said you need to eat a mix of the three to be healthy because they all have important body functions.
- jbd0 3y ago
  You're so wrong. With only protein and fat, they would not be able to gain much weight. I've tried to gain weight on low carb/high fat, and it doesn't work. I was uncomfortably full after every meal. My tracking showed a significant calorie surplus, but my body wasn't absorbing it. Adding in more carbs made a huge difference. Hormones tell your body when to store fat.
  - Attummm 3y ago
    Did you know that bodybuilders in the 1950's(before anabolic steroids) used the egg and steak diet before contests as cutting diet to get lean? They would eat, as the name suggests, large quantities of steak and eggs with butter and have a carb refeeding day every 4 days. They would get really lean on a very high-calorie diet, think 4000 to 6000 calories. The inventor of diet famously lost a contest for being too lean.
- burjui 3y ago
  Lack of carbs supresses appetite, JFYI.
  - jlhf 3y ago
    I never claimed otherwise and it does not negate my point.
cies 3y ago
Humans are bad at lipogenesis: we can only convert tiny fraction of the carbs into fat. Thus: the fat your eat is largely the fat you wear. You cannot explain it otherwise (without showing a undiscoverd way humans can convert carbs into fat). > i.e. if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; it is the sugar and carbs that make them fat. This is dangerous. It may work on the short term, but it is very dangerous on the long run.
- thelittleone 3y ago
  High fat and protein is keto right? What's so dangerous?
  - cies 3y ago
    Ketosis is probably our rudimentary "wintersleep mode". Rudimentary as we are basically tropical animals (look at our lack of fur). We should not eat for ketosis. But we can eat (restricted to fat and protein) and still stay in ketosis, which is marketed as the keto diet and is not well tested in long term studies. You are a guinea pig when you do this long term.
    - imtringued 3y ago
      >You are a guinea pig when you do this long term. As opposed to being reliably obese? What's your baseline? I recently checked the average weight of men and women and I am honestly shocked.
      - cies 3y ago
        Short term you can lose weight with ketosis. Long term you are taking unknown risks. The risks of obesity are well known. Also, you do not get obese by lack of a keto diet. One usually gets there with a rubbish diet.
        thelittleone 3y ago
callmeal 3y ago
> if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; A large amount of protein would make them fat - experiments have shown that about 8% of ingested protein gets converted to glucose in the liver: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636610/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636610/ The authors calculated that ∼18 g (79%) of the 23 g of ingested protein could be accounted for by deamination; thus those carbon skeletons were available for gluconeogenesis and release of new glucose into the circulation. The remainder, presumably, was used for new protein synthesis. The total amount of glucose entering the circulation from all sources was calculated to be 50 g over the 8-h period. However, only 4 g (8%) could be attributed to the ingested protein.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  I think you misread that experiment. It appears that some quantity of protein was converted to glucose, but that it wasn’t dependent in the quantity of protein consumed.

jlhf 3y ago

No they wouldn’t stay lean. If you fed someone more calories than their body uses to maintain its current weight, they would get fat eventually. Regardless of whether they eat carbs, fat or protein.

kuschkufan 3y ago
Let's say you're being fed just the amount of calories your body needs to maintain. What influence on body fat has the distribution of carbs, protein and fat from food then?
- jlhf 3y ago
  My point was that regardless of what you eat, if you eat more than your body expends, some of the excess will be used to produce fat and you will gain weight. If you lead a sedentary lifestyle and eat 3000 calories of nothing but lean meat per day, you will gain weight. You are right that different foods (macronutrients, more specifically) have different thermic effects and therefore require different amounts of energy to metabolise. Protein takes more energy to process than fat. This does not change my overall point.
- lobocinza 3y ago
  Not much for getting lean but it's easier to overeat carbs and fats are calorie dense. That said you need to eat a mix of the three to be healthy because they all have important body functions.
jbd0 3y ago
You're so wrong. With only protein and fat, they would not be able to gain much weight. I've tried to gain weight on low carb/high fat, and it doesn't work. I was uncomfortably full after every meal. My tracking showed a significant calorie surplus, but my body wasn't absorbing it. Adding in more carbs made a huge difference. Hormones tell your body when to store fat.
- Attummm 3y ago
  Did you know that bodybuilders in the 1950's(before anabolic steroids) used the egg and steak diet before contests as cutting diet to get lean? They would eat, as the name suggests, large quantities of steak and eggs with butter and have a carb refeeding day every 4 days. They would get really lean on a very high-calorie diet, think 4000 to 6000 calories. The inventor of diet famously lost a contest for being too lean.
burjui 3y ago
Lack of carbs supresses appetite, JFYI.
- jlhf 3y ago
  I never claimed otherwise and it does not negate my point.

cies 3y ago

Humans are bad at lipogenesis: we can only convert tiny fraction of the carbs into fat. Thus: the fat your eat is largely the fat you wear. You cannot explain it otherwise (without showing a undiscoverd way humans can convert carbs into fat). > i.e. if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; it is the sugar and carbs that make them fat. This is dangerous. It may work on the short term, but it is very dangerous on the long run.

thelittleone 3y ago
High fat and protein is keto right? What's so dangerous?
- cies 3y ago
  Ketosis is probably our rudimentary "wintersleep mode". Rudimentary as we are basically tropical animals (look at our lack of fur). We should not eat for ketosis. But we can eat (restricted to fat and protein) and still stay in ketosis, which is marketed as the keto diet and is not well tested in long term studies. You are a guinea pig when you do this long term.
  - imtringued 3y ago
    >You are a guinea pig when you do this long term. As opposed to being reliably obese? What's your baseline? I recently checked the average weight of men and women and I am honestly shocked.
    - cies 3y ago
      Short term you can lose weight with ketosis. Long term you are taking unknown risks. The risks of obesity are well known. Also, you do not get obese by lack of a keto diet. One usually gets there with a rubbish diet.
      - thelittleone 3y ago

callmeal 3y ago

> if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; A large amount of protein would make them fat - experiments have shown that about 8% of ingested protein gets converted to glucose in the liver: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636610/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636610/ The authors calculated that ∼18 g (79%) of the 23 g of ingested protein could be accounted for by deamination; thus those carbon skeletons were available for gluconeogenesis and release of new glucose into the circulation. The remainder, presumably, was used for new protein synthesis. The total amount of glucose entering the circulation from all sources was calculated to be 50 g over the 8-h period. However, only 4 g (8%) could be attributed to the ingested protein.

amanaplanacanal 3y ago
I think you misread that experiment. It appears that some quantity of protein was converted to glucose, but that it wasn’t dependent in the quantity of protein consumed.