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> Does anything good come from encouraging kids to think that they will manage to sail through life as a successful business founder rather than an employee? I

by volkk 3y ago

> Does anything good come from encouraging kids to think that they will manage to sail through life as a successful business founder rather than an employee? I would imagine dreaming big is pretty good for children. A big reason for why I'm optimistic in life is because I have hope for achieving something. I truly can't imagine a life where my father/mother would only hammer in the fact that I am just an average joe and should stick to climbing the corporate ladder. Such an uninspiring take, this one. Depressing.

awesomeMilou 3y ago
> I would imagine dreaming big is pretty good for children. I would rather have my children dream of becoming astronauts than becoming the next Steve Jobs.
- volkk 3y ago
  i'd argue that's entirely up to the child to dream how they see fit, and up to the parent to support them, build them up and keep a pulse on what the thing is they're focusing on
  - slimsag 3y ago
    Most kids want to be social media influencers. But I do not think most kids today, once adults, will be very happy with their parents if they just blindly support them in that dream, neglecting other realistic career possibilities in blind faith that their kid will be a star. I'm not saying you should tell your kid 'no! you can't be, I won't let you.' - but like, maybe nudge them in the right direction, have them meet influencers and hear how hard the job actually can be, hear how lucky/unfair who becomes popular and successful can be - then if they are comfortable with and understand those risks, support them in any way possible after that.
    - Apocryphon 3y ago
      To be fair, becoming a social media influencer isn’t all that conceptually different from becoming a movie star, a professional athlete, a famous musician, or other type of celebrity entertainer. Maybe even marginally more attainable. Funny enough is successful people like pg themselves become essentially social media influencers after they’ve achieved things. Fame and following are the next pursuit after wealth.
    - volkk 3y ago
      i was hoping it's obvious that as a parent you should still keep guardrails around them but i also specifically mentioned > and keep a pulse on what the thing is they're focusing on
pickledish 3y ago
> I truly can't imagine a life where my father/mother would only hammer in the fact that I am just an average joe and should stick to climbing the corporate ladder. Such an uninspiring take, this one. Depressing. That is depressing! But also not what the parent comment said -- you seem to have accidentally taken a much more severe meaning from that comment (than I did, at least). The top-level comment is just talking about being pragmatic. It's hard to walk the line between having idealistic visions and knowing that most of them won't pan out, and probably harder still to teach walking that line to your kids. I think that's what the comment was talking about -- not advocating for falling entirely on the latter side of that line -- which, as you say, would be super depressing!
- landryraccoon 3y ago
  The fundamental disagreement I have with the post is the idea that you're foolish for doing something because it probably won't pan out. So what? Why be so terrified of failure? I think it's better if kids learn to be brave, and pick themselves up in life after they stumble. Living life in utter fear of failing at anything seems like a terrible way for your children to start off life. Besides for which few things are better learning experiences than trying to start your own company. And who knows. They might even succeed beyond their wildest dreams, as some do.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    My call was not that you're foolish for doing something because it won't pan out. It was that it is foolish to tell/teach/encourage people to expect that things like "start Google" have any reasonable likelihood of succeeding. And it is even worse when that encourages people to fail to organize, vote, protest, push for better work and better working conditions for everybody who are not founders of unicorns.
    - landryraccoon 3y ago
      > And it is even worse when that encourages people to fail to organize, vote, protest, push for better work and better working conditions for everybody who are not founders of unicorns. You've lost me here. How does working at a startup make it any more difficult to do this than working at a bank or hospital? For that matter, would you discourage someone from pursuing basic research at a university or a doctorate degree because that doesn't directly advance a political agenda?
feedforward 3y ago
I find the level-headed realism and appreciation of those of us who work in OP's post refreshing, and the solipsism and wishful thinking of your post depressing.
- volkk 3y ago
  what a weird comment. my entire drive to want to be a business owner is fueled by the desire to be free from inept senior leadership, bad managers and bloated hierarchy mixed with building something people love that stems from my own head. not sure how that translates to solopsism. also, optimism and desire to think big (even if i fail) is depressing to you? you should probably seek therapy, dude
amelius 3y ago
If everybody became an entrepreneur then we wouldn't have scientists working on our biggest technological problems.
- amelius 3y ago
  (for most research you need a lot of money and people, so out of reach of startups)
surgical_fire 3y ago
Eh, maybe it is good to learn that you're not destined to anything grand early on. It gives you resilience, and builds character. Teaches you to value the small things in life. It can be a lot more depressing to learn you are a loser well into your adulthood, after a long time of thinking very highly of yourself.
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
People deserve dignity and meaning from their labor no matter what sort of work they do. This should not be reserved for those who manage to start unicorns (let alone Googles). It might interest you to know what I was employee #2 at amzn.

by volkk 3y ago

awesomeMilou 3y ago

> I would imagine dreaming big is pretty good for children. I would rather have my children dream of becoming astronauts than becoming the next Steve Jobs.

volkk 3y ago
i'd argue that's entirely up to the child to dream how they see fit, and up to the parent to support them, build them up and keep a pulse on what the thing is they're focusing on
- slimsag 3y ago
  Most kids want to be social media influencers. But I do not think most kids today, once adults, will be very happy with their parents if they just blindly support them in that dream, neglecting other realistic career possibilities in blind faith that their kid will be a star. I'm not saying you should tell your kid 'no! you can't be, I won't let you.' - but like, maybe nudge them in the right direction, have them meet influencers and hear how hard the job actually can be, hear how lucky/unfair who becomes popular and successful can be - then if they are comfortable with and understand those risks, support them in any way possible after that.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    To be fair, becoming a social media influencer isn’t all that conceptually different from becoming a movie star, a professional athlete, a famous musician, or other type of celebrity entertainer. Maybe even marginally more attainable. Funny enough is successful people like pg themselves become essentially social media influencers after they’ve achieved things. Fame and following are the next pursuit after wealth.
  - volkk 3y ago
    i was hoping it's obvious that as a parent you should still keep guardrails around them but i also specifically mentioned > and keep a pulse on what the thing is they're focusing on

pickledish 3y ago

> I truly can't imagine a life where my father/mother would only hammer in the fact that I am just an average joe and should stick to climbing the corporate ladder. Such an uninspiring take, this one. Depressing. That is depressing! But also not what the parent comment said -- you seem to have accidentally taken a much more severe meaning from that comment (than I did, at least). The top-level comment is just talking about being pragmatic. It's hard to walk the line between having idealistic visions and knowing that most of them won't pan out, and probably harder still to teach walking that line to your kids. I think that's what the comment was talking about -- not advocating for falling entirely on the latter side of that line -- which, as you say, would be super depressing!

landryraccoon 3y ago
The fundamental disagreement I have with the post is the idea that you're foolish for doing something because it probably won't pan out. So what? Why be so terrified of failure? I think it's better if kids learn to be brave, and pick themselves up in life after they stumble. Living life in utter fear of failing at anything seems like a terrible way for your children to start off life. Besides for which few things are better learning experiences than trying to start your own company. And who knows. They might even succeed beyond their wildest dreams, as some do.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  My call was not that you're foolish for doing something because it won't pan out. It was that it is foolish to tell/teach/encourage people to expect that things like "start Google" have any reasonable likelihood of succeeding. And it is even worse when that encourages people to fail to organize, vote, protest, push for better work and better working conditions for everybody who are not founders of unicorns.
  - landryraccoon 3y ago
    > And it is even worse when that encourages people to fail to organize, vote, protest, push for better work and better working conditions for everybody who are not founders of unicorns. You've lost me here. How does working at a startup make it any more difficult to do this than working at a bank or hospital? For that matter, would you discourage someone from pursuing basic research at a university or a doctorate degree because that doesn't directly advance a political agenda?

feedforward 3y ago

I find the level-headed realism and appreciation of those of us who work in OP's post refreshing, and the solipsism and wishful thinking of your post depressing.

volkk 3y ago
what a weird comment. my entire drive to want to be a business owner is fueled by the desire to be free from inept senior leadership, bad managers and bloated hierarchy mixed with building something people love that stems from my own head. not sure how that translates to solopsism. also, optimism and desire to think big (even if i fail) is depressing to you? you should probably seek therapy, dude

amelius 3y ago

If everybody became an entrepreneur then we wouldn't have scientists working on our biggest technological problems.

amelius 3y ago
(for most research you need a lot of money and people, so out of reach of startups)

surgical_fire 3y ago

Eh, maybe it is good to learn that you're not destined to anything grand early on. It gives you resilience, and builds character. Teaches you to value the small things in life. It can be a lot more depressing to learn you are a loser well into your adulthood, after a long time of thinking very highly of yourself.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

People deserve dignity and meaning from their labor no matter what sort of work they do. This should not be reserved for those who manage to start unicorns (let alone Googles). It might interest you to know what I was employee #2 at amzn.