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I agree strongly with Biden when he characterized the recovered American economy as "the greatest story never told". The reality is that the US economy is very

I agree strongly with Biden when he characterized the recovered American economy as "the greatest story never told". The reality is that the US economy is very strong, and has been for quite some time now. We all just don't like to admit it.

HarryHirsch 3y ago
If the economy is that strong, why are housing prices outrageously high on either coast, where the jobs are? To paraphrase Jesus, it's not about Man serving the Economy, it's about the Economy serving Man.
- laidoffamazon 3y ago
  Jobs are everywhere in this country, there's a reason why the unemployment rate is so low!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Care to elaborate on this line of thinking? What jobs and where?
    - HarryHirsch 3y ago
      Dude is saying that someone who is works for 1h in a week is not included in the U-3 statistics. The wife is reviewing job applications for a teaching position at her institution. There are people applying who did decent work in the past and are now writing assignments for study.com. That's some serious underemployment visible there.
      - nradov 3y ago
        Is the issue underemployment or elite overproduction?
        HarryHirsch 3y ago
        It's lack of industrial policy, really, the fact that these people did good science until outsourcing started proves it. It's not cases of "got useless PhD at university no one ever heard of".
      - kemotep 3y ago
        These people are counted in the U6 figures. U3 is only people without a job who have been looking in the past 12 months and haven’t found a job.
      - laidoffamazon 3y ago
        Underemployment historically low right now, your anecdotes are meaningless against the real data.
- nradov 3y ago
  A strong economy tends to cause higher housing prices. When people have more money then they naturally tend to spend a lot of that on upgrading their living arrangements. Immigration is also a factor. I'm not trying to start an argument about immigration but the de facto open borders policy has brought in millions more people. That must have an effect, particularly at the lower end of the market.
  - HarryHirsch 3y ago
    A strong economy tends to cause higher housing prices A look at the data will tell you that housing construction does not meet demand since in the mid-1980's (!): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOUST https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOUST. It's now obvious to anyone that the policy failure has caught up with the nation. The problem is seriously compounded by the depopulation of rural areas and the fact that current new construction is not entry-level housing and never will be. You can't subdivide an exurban mansion into four apartments.
laidoffamazon 3y ago
Absolutely, poor media coverage has lead to poor sentiment despite a consistently good economic recovery since gas prices went down in 2022.
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>the US economy is very strong, and has been for quite some time now. We all just don't like to admit it. What should "a strong US economy" mean to the common middle class worker? I think that's the issue. Unemployment is low, but several sectors are finding it harder to find work than ever, with companies slashing roles in real time. Where are these roles, what kind of roles are they (part time, gig?), and can people actually live off of these roles? if unemployment is zero and everyone is flipping burgers, that doesn't seem to be an actual win for the working class.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > if unemployment is zero and everyone is flipping burgers, that doesn't seem to be an actual win for the working class. That is nowhere near reality, so the supposition is a waste of time. Plenty of work is highly in demand, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, driving, etc.
  - harimau777 3y ago
    I think that the question is whether the high demand work is available (e.g. most people aren't electricians) and whether it allows for a good quality of life.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >Plenty of work is highly in demand Sure, so is tech. The point is more that are these "high demand" work hiring? Also, nit: I don't recall "driving" ever particularly being in high demand. Rideshare gig's are the exact kinds of roles I fear the government is counting as "employed".
    - kemotep 3y ago
      You need to be looking at the U6 figures to get all marginally attached to workforce people such as those who are under employed who want more work. Someone working less than 35 hours a week for a ride share app but wanting more hours or even working more than 35 hours and wanting a better job would count in the U6 figure.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
I think it’s both (great economy, poor sentiment). The economy is strong because unemployment is low. Unemployment is low because of a tight labor market due to structural demographics. But housing is expensive because of housing shortages, which will take years, if not decades, of building to resolve. Credit is expensive making buying durable goods expensive (autos, specifically). Healthcare is…you know. We’re closer to “living within our means” (versus cheap credit inflating consumer and business spend) from an equilibrium perspective, but the ZIRP party is over, happiness is reality minus expectations, and everyone is disappointed in what reality looks like. You might not lose your job, but you’re still chained to a treadmill with no relief in sight. Hence, sentiment.
jayd16 3y ago
The economy is strong but people aren't feeling it because wages haven't caught up to inflation. It's a soft landing, which is great news, but hard to get excited.

HarryHirsch 3y ago

If the economy is that strong, why are housing prices outrageously high on either coast, where the jobs are? To paraphrase Jesus, it's not about Man serving the Economy, it's about the Economy serving Man.

laidoffamazon 3y ago
Jobs are everywhere in this country, there's a reason why the unemployment rate is so low!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Care to elaborate on this line of thinking? What jobs and where?
  - HarryHirsch 3y ago
    Dude is saying that someone who is works for 1h in a week is not included in the U-3 statistics. The wife is reviewing job applications for a teaching position at her institution. There are people applying who did decent work in the past and are now writing assignments for study.com. That's some serious underemployment visible there.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Is the issue underemployment or elite overproduction?
      - HarryHirsch 3y ago
        It's lack of industrial policy, really, the fact that these people did good science until outsourcing started proves it. It's not cases of "got useless PhD at university no one ever heard of".
    - kemotep 3y ago
      These people are counted in the U6 figures. U3 is only people without a job who have been looking in the past 12 months and haven’t found a job.
    - laidoffamazon 3y ago
      Underemployment historically low right now, your anecdotes are meaningless against the real data.
nradov 3y ago
A strong economy tends to cause higher housing prices. When people have more money then they naturally tend to spend a lot of that on upgrading their living arrangements. Immigration is also a factor. I'm not trying to start an argument about immigration but the de facto open borders policy has brought in millions more people. That must have an effect, particularly at the lower end of the market.
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  A strong economy tends to cause higher housing prices A look at the data will tell you that housing construction does not meet demand since in the mid-1980's (!): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOUST https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOUST. It's now obvious to anyone that the policy failure has caught up with the nation. The problem is seriously compounded by the depopulation of rural areas and the fact that current new construction is not entry-level housing and never will be. You can't subdivide an exurban mansion into four apartments.

laidoffamazon 3y ago

Absolutely, poor media coverage has lead to poor sentiment despite a consistently good economic recovery since gas prices went down in 2022.

Der_Einzige 3y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>the US economy is very strong, and has been for quite some time now. We all just don't like to admit it. What should "a strong US economy" mean to the common middle class worker? I think that's the issue. Unemployment is low, but several sectors are finding it harder to find work than ever, with companies slashing roles in real time. Where are these roles, what kind of roles are they (part time, gig?), and can people actually live off of these roles? if unemployment is zero and everyone is flipping burgers, that doesn't seem to be an actual win for the working class.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
> if unemployment is zero and everyone is flipping burgers, that doesn't seem to be an actual win for the working class. That is nowhere near reality, so the supposition is a waste of time. Plenty of work is highly in demand, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, driving, etc.
- harimau777 3y ago
  I think that the question is whether the high demand work is available (e.g. most people aren't electricians) and whether it allows for a good quality of life.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >Plenty of work is highly in demand Sure, so is tech. The point is more that are these "high demand" work hiring? Also, nit: I don't recall "driving" ever particularly being in high demand. Rideshare gig's are the exact kinds of roles I fear the government is counting as "employed".
  - kemotep 3y ago
    You need to be looking at the U6 figures to get all marginally attached to workforce people such as those who are under employed who want more work. Someone working less than 35 hours a week for a ride share app but wanting more hours or even working more than 35 hours and wanting a better job would count in the U6 figure.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

I think it’s both (great economy, poor sentiment). The economy is strong because unemployment is low. Unemployment is low because of a tight labor market due to structural demographics. But housing is expensive because of housing shortages, which will take years, if not decades, of building to resolve. Credit is expensive making buying durable goods expensive (autos, specifically). Healthcare is…you know. We’re closer to “living within our means” (versus cheap credit inflating consumer and business spend) from an equilibrium perspective, but the ZIRP party is over, happiness is reality minus expectations, and everyone is disappointed in what reality looks like. You might not lose your job, but you’re still chained to a treadmill with no relief in sight. Hence, sentiment.

jayd16 3y ago

The economy is strong but people aren't feeling it because wages haven't caught up to inflation. It's a soft landing, which is great news, but hard to get excited.