3 ms·

Mechanics should be wearing sufficient PPE if they are working with particulate pollution. Take asbestos out of the brake dust but they still do things that gen

by asdff 3y ago

Mechanics should be wearing sufficient PPE if they are working with particulate pollution. Take asbestos out of the brake dust but they still do things that generate plenty of particulate, which is only an occupational hazard when coupled with improper ppe.

azinman2 3y ago
How often do you see mechanics with any kind of PPE?
- toast0 3y ago
  Almost all professional mechanics are wearing coveralls. That's PPE. I've certainly seen a lot that wear gloves. That's PPE. Goggles or safety glasses are common but not ubiquitous in the shops I've seen. That's PPE. Ignoring masks that seem responsive to COVID, I haven't seen a lot of masks or respirators outside of shops where they're doing paint work, but I also don't get to see all the shop space and masks are intrusive, so probably if mechanics wear them, it's only when they perceive an accute risk. You don't usually keep your welding mask on all day, unless there's a lot of welding.
- asdff 3y ago
  How is this an argument to them not needing to wear PPE? Asbestos isn't the only particulate risk they face. PPE on the other hand would solve the others. You can say you don't see mechanics wearing PPE but thats because its not presently regulated. How many kitchens today lack a handwashing sink? Zero, if they have passed a health inspection.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Health inspection failures are very common. Health inspections also only capture a specific a point in time. I have personally eaten at restaurants that initially passed a health inspection, yet failed later for not having a functional handwashing sink. e.g. https://medium.com/@michaelkduchak/predicting-chicago-health-inspection-failures-a9e01788b88e https://medium.com/@michaelkduchak/predicting-chicago-health... Ensuring complete compliance at this level is very difficult.
  - azinman2 3y ago
    It’s not an argument, but an observation. They deal in all kinds of chemicals and other nastiness, and I’ve never seen one wear PPE. I’ve even talked to mechanics about it and they don’t seem to care.
    - asdff 3y ago
      Service your car at a dealer instead of the cheapest shop in town and you will see people gladly using ppe.
- lbotos 3y ago
  My younger brother worked at an independent BMW shop for a bit and they wore gloves all day. Anyone actively using airtools also had on ear muffs. Grinding, they'd wear a face shield. Yes, often ppl are dumb but they don't have to be.
kube-system 3y ago
Unfortunately PPE is not always taken seriously by automotive tradespeople (and their employers). It is common to see both professional mechanics and home mechanics doing brake jobs without PPE, in many places. Also, smaller amounts of brake dust are distributed everywhere in the environment where vehicles are operated.
IntrepidWorm 3y ago
Sure, but ensuring all mechanics everywhere have access to use PPE, and then enforcing its correct use is way less effective in practice than removing the hazardous material from the workplace entirely. Being exposed to any fine particulate matter over long periods will be detrimental to health (we aren't evolved to breath large amounts of dust), but not every particulate is an acute carcinogen.
- asdff 3y ago
  We can play whack a mole getting every source of particulate out of the garage (can we even do that? consider sanding, grinding, painting, etc, not just the brakes are making this), or we can use our existing workplace safety enforcement mechanisms to enforce ppe in this industry like they've enforced ppe in many other industries.
  - ziddoap 3y ago
    >_or_ we can Or, and hear me out because I know this is crazy... we can do both! By trying to get rid of the bad stuff from the workplace and get better at enforcing ppe use.
- robocat 3y ago
  > we aren't evolved to breath large amounts of dust We are doing that evolution at present! The best way to do evolution is something that kills children before they breed. Second best for evolution is killing adults before they breed. Mostly ineffective is killing adults after they breed: although in theory loss of an adult can affect the population breeding chances downwards for children. Just a reminder that evolution is about breeding children and not so much about death.
  - IntrepidWorm 3y ago
    I'm just spitballing here, but I'd wager that the human toll required to evolve effective resistance to regular and prolonged asbestos exposure is more than most of us would be willing to pay. We already evolved these massive craniums filled with (to date) the most intricate and powerful general computers in the world - it seems like the solution to asbestos exposure is simply engineering a way to avoid it. No evolution necessary.
Scoundreller 3y ago
Sounds like my shadetree approach means I’m steps ahead of the pros.
greenavocado 3y ago
Independent mechanics never wear PPE and they are covered in dust and automotive fluids daily.
- asdff 3y ago
  So take out the asbestos and they are still at risk because the fundamental issue is a lack of PPE. You can regulate PPE. Many industries have done it. Shadetree work, sure, people do dumb things like cook hotdogs in shopping carts and sell that too, that will always happen. But for a brick and mortar mechanic they are already going though many regulations (e.g. how they deal with oil). PPE requirements are nothing in comparison to having to deal with things of that nature, or even just general small business requirements.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    How? Staff an OSHA inspector to stand around in every garage? If Jim at Jim's Auto Service doesn't want to wear a mask, he's not going to wear one. It's not like oil where there's an evidence trail and a big mess if he decides to dump 50 gallons in the back lot. Yes, there's more that could be done in regards to PPE enforcement, but I think that's really an orthogonal issue. Asbestos isn't necessary in brakes, and can be banned regardless of PPE enforcement.
    - asdff 3y ago
      The same way they manage to conduct health inspections even in the most random hole in the wall greasy spoon locations. You have an expectation for certain things to be there. You have an expectation that procedures are followed. When an incident occurs or an inspection happens where its clear that certain protections were not in place or certain procedures were not followed, you drop the hammer on them. Its not hard and we already have the bureaucratic apparatus to do this. Saying we can't do it for mechanics while we simultaneously do it for other industries like farming, construction, manufacturing, or food service, is just lazy.
      - 3y ago

by asdff 3y ago

azinman2 3y ago

How often do you see mechanics with any kind of PPE?

toast0 3y ago
Almost all professional mechanics are wearing coveralls. That's PPE. I've certainly seen a lot that wear gloves. That's PPE. Goggles or safety glasses are common but not ubiquitous in the shops I've seen. That's PPE. Ignoring masks that seem responsive to COVID, I haven't seen a lot of masks or respirators outside of shops where they're doing paint work, but I also don't get to see all the shop space and masks are intrusive, so probably if mechanics wear them, it's only when they perceive an accute risk. You don't usually keep your welding mask on all day, unless there's a lot of welding.
asdff 3y ago
How is this an argument to them not needing to wear PPE? Asbestos isn't the only particulate risk they face. PPE on the other hand would solve the others. You can say you don't see mechanics wearing PPE but thats because its not presently regulated. How many kitchens today lack a handwashing sink? Zero, if they have passed a health inspection.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Health inspection failures are very common. Health inspections also only capture a specific a point in time. I have personally eaten at restaurants that initially passed a health inspection, yet failed later for not having a functional handwashing sink. e.g. https://medium.com/@michaelkduchak/predicting-chicago-health-inspection-failures-a9e01788b88e https://medium.com/@michaelkduchak/predicting-chicago-health... Ensuring complete compliance at this level is very difficult.
- azinman2 3y ago
  It’s not an argument, but an observation. They deal in all kinds of chemicals and other nastiness, and I’ve never seen one wear PPE. I’ve even talked to mechanics about it and they don’t seem to care.
  - asdff 3y ago
    Service your car at a dealer instead of the cheapest shop in town and you will see people gladly using ppe.
lbotos 3y ago
My younger brother worked at an independent BMW shop for a bit and they wore gloves all day. Anyone actively using airtools also had on ear muffs. Grinding, they'd wear a face shield. Yes, often ppl are dumb but they don't have to be.

kube-system 3y ago

Unfortunately PPE is not always taken seriously by automotive tradespeople (and their employers). It is common to see both professional mechanics and home mechanics doing brake jobs without PPE, in many places. Also, smaller amounts of brake dust are distributed everywhere in the environment where vehicles are operated.

IntrepidWorm 3y ago

Sure, but ensuring all mechanics everywhere have access to use PPE, and then enforcing its correct use is way less effective in practice than removing the hazardous material from the workplace entirely. Being exposed to any fine particulate matter over long periods will be detrimental to health (we aren't evolved to breath large amounts of dust), but not every particulate is an acute carcinogen.

asdff 3y ago
We can play whack a mole getting every source of particulate out of the garage (can we even do that? consider sanding, grinding, painting, etc, not just the brakes are making this), or we can use our existing workplace safety enforcement mechanisms to enforce ppe in this industry like they've enforced ppe in many other industries.
- ziddoap 3y ago
  >_or_ we can Or, and hear me out because I know this is crazy... we can do both! By trying to get rid of the bad stuff from the workplace and get better at enforcing ppe use.
robocat 3y ago
> we aren't evolved to breath large amounts of dust We are doing that evolution at present! The best way to do evolution is something that kills children before they breed. Second best for evolution is killing adults before they breed. Mostly ineffective is killing adults after they breed: although in theory loss of an adult can affect the population breeding chances downwards for children. Just a reminder that evolution is about breeding children and not so much about death.
- IntrepidWorm 3y ago
  I'm just spitballing here, but I'd wager that the human toll required to evolve effective resistance to regular and prolonged asbestos exposure is more than most of us would be willing to pay. We already evolved these massive craniums filled with (to date) the most intricate and powerful general computers in the world - it seems like the solution to asbestos exposure is simply engineering a way to avoid it. No evolution necessary.

Scoundreller 3y ago

Sounds like my shadetree approach means I’m steps ahead of the pros.

greenavocado 3y ago

Independent mechanics never wear PPE and they are covered in dust and automotive fluids daily.

asdff 3y ago
So take out the asbestos and they are still at risk because the fundamental issue is a lack of PPE. You can regulate PPE. Many industries have done it. Shadetree work, sure, people do dumb things like cook hotdogs in shopping carts and sell that too, that will always happen. But for a brick and mortar mechanic they are already going though many regulations (e.g. how they deal with oil). PPE requirements are nothing in comparison to having to deal with things of that nature, or even just general small business requirements.
- kube-system 3y ago
  How? Staff an OSHA inspector to stand around in every garage? If Jim at Jim's Auto Service doesn't want to wear a mask, he's not going to wear one. It's not like oil where there's an evidence trail and a big mess if he decides to dump 50 gallons in the back lot. Yes, there's more that could be done in regards to PPE enforcement, but I think that's really an orthogonal issue. Asbestos isn't necessary in brakes, and can be banned regardless of PPE enforcement.
  - asdff 3y ago
    The same way they manage to conduct health inspections even in the most random hole in the wall greasy spoon locations. You have an expectation for certain things to be there. You have an expectation that procedures are followed. When an incident occurs or an inspection happens where its clear that certain protections were not in place or certain procedures were not followed, you drop the hammer on them. Its not hard and we already have the bureaucratic apparatus to do this. Saying we can't do it for mechanics while we simultaneously do it for other industries like farming, construction, manufacturing, or food service, is just lazy.
    - 3y ago