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It's called permethrin. Kills ticks but also kills cats, so be careful. I have heard that once it is dry, it isn't a threat to your little furry friend, but I

It's called permethrin. Kills ticks but also kills cats, so be careful. I have heard that once it is dry, it isn't a threat to your little furry friend, but I still won't risk it.

afandian 3y ago
And lots of other wildlife. https://theriverstrust.org/about-us/news/flea-mergency-pet-treatments-taking-a-bite-out-of-the-health-of-englands-rivers https://theriverstrust.org/about-us/news/flea-mergency-pet-t...
- gryzzly 3y ago
  In Germany there is a spray based on eucalyptus oil and it works very well. it is marketed as “sensitive”. we have a dog that licks stuff and wanted to avoid the use of the acaricides
kamarg 3y ago
It's also highly toxic to aquatic animals as well and does come off a bit when put in the wash.
diggan 3y ago
> It's called permethrin. Seems there are a couple of chemicals that act as anti-tick. We're using Seresto collars for our two dogs (no ticks in a decade of usage), which seems to be using Imidacloprid (anti-fleas) and Flumethrin (anti-ticks). So at least there seems to be two ingredients, there are probably more.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  I always wonder if we could have some human collar that absorbs & oozes out insecticide and keeps mosquitoes and blackflies away. But nice to see we’re finally getting for humans what pets have had for a while for ticks.
  - DowagerDave 3y ago
    You don't usually get bitten by mosquitoes on your neck though, how would this help with the bites you DO get all over your legs and arms? Or are you suggesting something so potent it absorbs into your bloodstream and then prevents bug bites? no thanks.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      > Or are you suggesting something so potent it absorbs into your bloodstream and then prevents bug bites That’s what the medicated pet collars do. Part of the advantage of collar-absorption is that you can use a molecule that readily breaks down/inactivates in digestion. And avoid sharp peaks in blood levels.
      - Turing_Machine 3y ago
        I knew a woman who was highly amused that the cancer drug she was on caused mosquitoes to die instantaneously upon biting her. Tough woman. She is missed.
    - diggan 3y ago
      > how would this help with the bites you DO get all over your legs and arms? Not sure how true it is, but the marketing for the collars we use claims that eventually the chemicals spreads to protect the full body, even if the collar is just around the neck.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      > You don't usually get bitten by mosquitoes on your neck though, and how do you manage this?
  - doodlebugging 3y ago
    A long time ago when I worked on a seismic crew we found ourselves cutting lines through the brush in a river bottom. Millions of ticks would swarm up your pant legs in a red-brown cloud looking for any opening to your skin. It was not unusual to see someone strip down in the field and burn the ticks off of their clothes. I carried a large knife and used the blade to peel them off my pants by the hundreds. It was crazy how thick they were. They seemed to be hanging on every pecan leaf and on the grass under the trees. We began treating our boots with diesel to try to repel them. That worked to a point. It didn't take long to reveal the shortcoming in that method - diesel fuel soaks through the leather and easily enters the skin. It ruins the boot leather and burns your skin so that wearing anything on your feet is very painful so we abandoned that method. After looking at options we decided to use cattle ear tags because each cow only uses one and it keeps them tick-free. After reading all the warnings about safe handling - wear gloves, avoid skin contact, potential reproductive harm, cancer risk, etc. - we decided that it made no difference. We realized that this had to be absorbed through the cow's bloodstream from the puncture on the ear and since every cow we had ever seen had an ear tag, this meant that this chemical was present in every steak or burger we had ever eaten so wearing one long enough to complete the part of the survey with the tick problem wasn't going to increase our risk of any adverse effects. We bought a pack of tags and each hung one on a boot and never had another tick. I don't have any known health issues to report here 40 years later. Totally anecdotal information from what is likely to have been a low-dose, short duration exposure event.
delfinom 3y ago
The problem is ticks are also slowly becoming immune to it.
LinuxBender 3y ago
Kills ticks but also kills cats AFAIK there has only been one documented case of it killing a kitten and it drank the liquid form, unknown quantity. Baby animals do not yet have fully formed livers to metabolize the sodium channel blocker. Insects on the other hand do not have a liver. They use body fat to detoxify but it isn't fast enough or volumetric enough to handle the sodium channel blocker in large amounts relative to their size.
- melvyn2 3y ago
  Here's a case study of 42: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.09.018 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.09.018 And there's certainly many more cases than just those at a "referral hospital in Sydney, Australia."
- joecool1029 3y ago
  People put dog tick/flea stuff on cats all the time by accident containing it (I've personally seen it twice now), it usually doesn't kill them but it's absolutely horrible to witness, cats will get seizures and treatment is only supportive, either they live or they don't. Both the cases I saw were brought to the vet and the cats were messed up pretty bad for a few days.
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    I could imagine if a cat was being covered in it often enough and they lick it up their glutathione may be depleted then their liver won't keep up. I will have to dig into the stats iskander provided to see pre-existing condition the cats were at. i.e. elderly, kittens, sickly Skimming over it I am not seeing stats on age or liver health.
- iskander 3y ago
  #1 on ASPCA's list of common toxicoses in cats: https://www.aspcapro.org/sites/default/files/zl-vetm0606_339-342.pdf https://www.aspcapro.org/sites/default/files/zl-vetm0606_339... Study of 286 cat/permethrin cases in London: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2007.05.003 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2007.05... Study of 750 cases in Australia: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.12.002 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.12... ...we don't track this stuff nearly as well for pets as we do for humans but seems to have pretty robust evidence of toxicity.
nucleardog 3y ago
I use permethrin around my yard as well as have some clothing I’ve treated myself. I also use flea and tick treatment on my two dogs which is primarily permethrin. I have two cats and we haven’t had any issues that I could see. I make 100% sure they can never be exposed to it when it’s wet, but they’ve been around me in treated clothing, escaped the house and walked through treated (dry) grass, been around dogs that have been treated with it, etc. Given the number of people that have cats and dogs living together who are treating their dogs with it monthly, it seems relatively safe if used properly and cautiously.
Tiktaalik 3y ago
Yeah it's a serious enough chemical that I think it's only legally usable in Canada by the military.
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  I find this surprising, are you sure it's not based on the concentration of the permethrin? Here in the US, I was able to buy a clothing spray of 0.5% permethrin from Home Depot. I'm also reasonably certain that at least some lice shampoos I've seen at my nearby CVS use permethrin, although I checked the one I bought and it doesn't have it.
  - bethekind 3y ago
    Can confirm above comment. Only thing close we can buy is permethrin impregnated clothes for mosquitoes. No permethrin anything otherwise. I have some, but only because I had my sister ship it from the states. Blows my mind that you can buy up to 36% permethrin by the jug down there
    - ChoGGi 3y ago
      You can get a weak version on Amazon (0.35) https://www.amazon.ca/OnGuard-Pro-Perm-Residual-Non-Flammable-Water-Based/dp/B0799QD2D5/ https://www.amazon.ca/OnGuard-Pro-Perm-Residual-Non-Flammabl...
    - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
      That's so bizarre. Both that you aren't allowed to buy it at any % concentration (not in clothes), and that my Random Ass could buy it at up to 36%.

It's called permethrin. Kills ticks but also kills cats, so be careful. I have heard that once it is dry, it isn't a threat to your little furry friend, but I still won't risk it.

afandian 3y ago

And lots of other wildlife. https://theriverstrust.org/about-us/news/flea-mergency-pet-treatments-taking-a-bite-out-of-the-health-of-englands-rivers https://theriverstrust.org/about-us/news/flea-mergency-pet-t...

gryzzly 3y ago
In Germany there is a spray based on eucalyptus oil and it works very well. it is marketed as “sensitive”. we have a dog that licks stuff and wanted to avoid the use of the acaricides

kamarg 3y ago

It's also highly toxic to aquatic animals as well and does come off a bit when put in the wash.

diggan 3y ago

> It's called permethrin. Seems there are a couple of chemicals that act as anti-tick. We're using Seresto collars for our two dogs (no ticks in a decade of usage), which seems to be using Imidacloprid (anti-fleas) and Flumethrin (anti-ticks). So at least there seems to be two ingredients, there are probably more.

Scoundreller 3y ago
I always wonder if we could have some human collar that absorbs & oozes out insecticide and keeps mosquitoes and blackflies away. But nice to see we’re finally getting for humans what pets have had for a while for ticks.
- DowagerDave 3y ago
  You don't usually get bitten by mosquitoes on your neck though, how would this help with the bites you DO get all over your legs and arms? Or are you suggesting something so potent it absorbs into your bloodstream and then prevents bug bites? no thanks.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    > Or are you suggesting something so potent it absorbs into your bloodstream and then prevents bug bites That’s what the medicated pet collars do. Part of the advantage of collar-absorption is that you can use a molecule that readily breaks down/inactivates in digestion. And avoid sharp peaks in blood levels.
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      I knew a woman who was highly amused that the cancer drug she was on caused mosquitoes to die instantaneously upon biting her. Tough woman. She is missed.
  - diggan 3y ago
    > how would this help with the bites you DO get all over your legs and arms? Not sure how true it is, but the marketing for the collars we use claims that eventually the chemicals spreads to protect the full body, even if the collar is just around the neck.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    > You don't usually get bitten by mosquitoes on your neck though, and how do you manage this?
- doodlebugging 3y ago
  A long time ago when I worked on a seismic crew we found ourselves cutting lines through the brush in a river bottom. Millions of ticks would swarm up your pant legs in a red-brown cloud looking for any opening to your skin. It was not unusual to see someone strip down in the field and burn the ticks off of their clothes. I carried a large knife and used the blade to peel them off my pants by the hundreds. It was crazy how thick they were. They seemed to be hanging on every pecan leaf and on the grass under the trees. We began treating our boots with diesel to try to repel them. That worked to a point. It didn't take long to reveal the shortcoming in that method - diesel fuel soaks through the leather and easily enters the skin. It ruins the boot leather and burns your skin so that wearing anything on your feet is very painful so we abandoned that method. After looking at options we decided to use cattle ear tags because each cow only uses one and it keeps them tick-free. After reading all the warnings about safe handling - wear gloves, avoid skin contact, potential reproductive harm, cancer risk, etc. - we decided that it made no difference. We realized that this had to be absorbed through the cow's bloodstream from the puncture on the ear and since every cow we had ever seen had an ear tag, this meant that this chemical was present in every steak or burger we had ever eaten so wearing one long enough to complete the part of the survey with the tick problem wasn't going to increase our risk of any adverse effects. We bought a pack of tags and each hung one on a boot and never had another tick. I don't have any known health issues to report here 40 years later. Totally anecdotal information from what is likely to have been a low-dose, short duration exposure event.

delfinom 3y ago

The problem is ticks are also slowly becoming immune to it.

LinuxBender 3y ago

Kills ticks but also kills cats AFAIK there has only been one documented case of it killing a kitten and it drank the liquid form, unknown quantity. Baby animals do not yet have fully formed livers to metabolize the sodium channel blocker. Insects on the other hand do not have a liver. They use body fat to detoxify but it isn't fast enough or volumetric enough to handle the sodium channel blocker in large amounts relative to their size.

melvyn2 3y ago
Here's a case study of 42: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.09.018 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.09.018 And there's certainly many more cases than just those at a "referral hospital in Sydney, Australia."
joecool1029 3y ago
People put dog tick/flea stuff on cats all the time by accident containing it (I've personally seen it twice now), it usually doesn't kill them but it's absolutely horrible to witness, cats will get seizures and treatment is only supportive, either they live or they don't. Both the cases I saw were brought to the vet and the cats were messed up pretty bad for a few days.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  I could imagine if a cat was being covered in it often enough and they lick it up their glutathione may be depleted then their liver won't keep up. I will have to dig into the stats iskander provided to see pre-existing condition the cats were at. i.e. elderly, kittens, sickly Skimming over it I am not seeing stats on age or liver health.
iskander 3y ago
#1 on ASPCA's list of common toxicoses in cats: https://www.aspcapro.org/sites/default/files/zl-vetm0606_339-342.pdf https://www.aspcapro.org/sites/default/files/zl-vetm0606_339... Study of 286 cat/permethrin cases in London: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2007.05.003 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2007.05... Study of 750 cases in Australia: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.12.002 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.12... ...we don't track this stuff nearly as well for pets as we do for humans but seems to have pretty robust evidence of toxicity.

nucleardog 3y ago

I use permethrin around my yard as well as have some clothing I’ve treated myself. I also use flea and tick treatment on my two dogs which is primarily permethrin. I have two cats and we haven’t had any issues that I could see. I make 100% sure they can never be exposed to it when it’s wet, but they’ve been around me in treated clothing, escaped the house and walked through treated (dry) grass, been around dogs that have been treated with it, etc. Given the number of people that have cats and dogs living together who are treating their dogs with it monthly, it seems relatively safe if used properly and cautiously.

Tiktaalik 3y ago

Yeah it's a serious enough chemical that I think it's only legally usable in Canada by the military.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago
I find this surprising, are you sure it's not based on the concentration of the permethrin? Here in the US, I was able to buy a clothing spray of 0.5% permethrin from Home Depot. I'm also reasonably certain that at least some lice shampoos I've seen at my nearby CVS use permethrin, although I checked the one I bought and it doesn't have it.
- bethekind 3y ago
  Can confirm above comment. Only thing close we can buy is permethrin impregnated clothes for mosquitoes. No permethrin anything otherwise. I have some, but only because I had my sister ship it from the states. Blows my mind that you can buy up to 36% permethrin by the jug down there
  - ChoGGi 3y ago
    You can get a weak version on Amazon (0.35) https://www.amazon.ca/OnGuard-Pro-Perm-Residual-Non-Flammable-Water-Based/dp/B0799QD2D5/ https://www.amazon.ca/OnGuard-Pro-Perm-Residual-Non-Flammabl...
  - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
    That's so bizarre. Both that you aren't allowed to buy it at any % concentration (not in clothes), and that my Random Ass could buy it at up to 36%.