6 ms·

Microsoft is being so aggressive it makes me never want to attempt to try Bing or Edge ever. I wonder if they’ve calculated the number of folks they’re losing f

by cebert 3y ago

Microsoft is being so aggressive it makes me never want to attempt to try Bing or Edge ever. I wonder if they’ve calculated the number of folks they’re losing forever with these tactics.

philistine 3y ago
Considering Chrome gained its large user base through its own nag screens on Google.com I bet the people inside Microsoft consider it fair game. I don’t agree.
bzzzt 3y ago
I agree, it's an extremely disrespectful user interface if it ignores my choices.
askonomm 3y ago
My assumption is that they have and the number of gained users is still more than those they lose. After all, most people (normies) still believe whatever their OS tells them, and if it tells them that Edge is safer and faster, they have no reason to doubt that.
- 8fingerlouie 3y ago
  While my personal preference is Firefox, i also have work to do, and most work sites will work perfectly with WebKit, and not so great with the Mozilla engine, so at my work PC i effectively had the choice between Chrome or Edge. I ended up going with Edge with the reasoning that both Chrome and Edge probably report a boatload of telemetry back to the mothership, as well as Windows 11, so there was no reason to share that telemetry with both Microsoft and Google if i could just share with one. On the plus side of things, Edge to me feels better. It's actually not half bad (privacy issues aside that exists in both Chrome and Edge).
  - vasachi 3y ago
    Name one site, that works "not so great" with Firefox.
    - 8fingerlouie 3y ago
      Basically anything that relies on Microsoft SSO, which is pretty much everything "enterprise". It "works", but requires far too much manual intervention, with frequent authentication popups, as opposed to just using Chrome/Edge and be done with it. I'm not ruling out that some of it is due to service misconfiguration by the auth team and service teams, but configuration errors or not, the end user result is the same, Chrome or Edge simply offer the path of least resistance.
      - Lio 3y ago
        I'm using many commercial sites using Microsoft SSO. I don't think I've ever been aware of an issue with Firefox. Name and shame I say.
      - hnlmorg 3y ago
        I've almost never had an issue with Microsoft SSO in Firefox. Be that with corporate Azure AD or personal Microsoft accounts. I have had an issue with Linux and Microsoft SSO. Though that was more down to IT policies in Azure AD than it was Microsoft SSO specifically. The only time Firefox was an issue with Microsoft SSO was when I tried to buy Minecraft and something about the Xbox / Minecraft / MS SSO required Edge. But that was one instance out of hundreds of interactions with MS SSO
        vladvasiliu 3y ago
        AzureAD doesn't work with Firefox on Linux if you need a yubikey or similar as a second factor. At some point FF wasn't able to do the user verification under linux (ask for a pin). Even though that's been fixed now, azuread still throws an error. Chromium on Linux works fine. I haven't tried FF on Windows.
      - Riverheart 3y ago
- isodev 3y ago
  Indeed, take the "we care about your privacy/cookie" nags - the industry collectively decided it's still better for their bottom line to put these on every site, every time you visit in the hopes that you'd get fed up or click the wrong button.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  I think most people are sleepwalking through life. They surely are gaining more than they lose. Just like the streaming services that have added advertising, or the car manufacturers who have climate control subscriptions.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Probably because for most people the important issues/choices in their life do not revolve around the choice of their OS, browser, streaming service, car brand, FOSS apps, etc. but around career, family, friends, kids, partying, traveling, having fun, etc. none of which depend on the choices of the former. You might call this "sleepwalking through life", while other people will call it "just living life" and not worrying about the unimportant pieces. Only HN tries to be an elitist stickler for these things which do not matter to 99% of people.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      All the other techie sites are sticklers for - and this is true - bad behavior. The reason is, techies live their lives more in browsers than other people. Just because most people don't, doesn't make it right.
- lwkl 3y ago
  Most people don't even read or understand that pop-up. My girlfriend for example used Bing and Edge for a few years without realising it. She only learned about different browsers and search engines when she started a trainee program in a performance marketing firm and managing ad campaigns became her job.
chrisandchris 3y ago
They'll loose probably the same amount of users they lost with the (annoying) "Do you really want to open $app?" dialogs (which I assume is just a rounding error). What strikes me is that such behaviour is legal (as a dominant software provider regarding OSs).
- d_tr 3y ago
  I just yesterday discovered the new S mode where you can only run apps from their store... You can disable it but you need to sign-in, after having had to work around that already during setup. They really treat the user like an idiot to be exploited, shamelessly.
  - ThunderSizzle 3y ago
    Is that really new? Windows 8 has an S version that was exactly that, and I don't believe you could unlock it.
kome 3y ago
It reminds me when google, in the in the 2010s, was bundling chrome with random installers like a third rate spyware company, to push chrome everywhere. It worked for chrome, it will work with edge as well.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  Or like the Google of today, where I get "Sign in with Google" pop-ups on every other web site I visit. The whole tech industry is nothing but nag nag nag nag nag. Is that really the best strategy "the smartest people in the room" can come up with? Imitate a five-year-old?
  - alt227 3y ago
    Unfortunately its the money paying the smartest people in the room that control the choices and make the decisions.
eps 3y ago
They are targeting users that did not install Chrome themselves. It's not uncommon for one technical person to "support" several non-technical relatives and friends. These are the targets, they are aplenty and MS wants them.
plagiarist 3y ago
Internet Explorer being absolute trash means you cannot trust them to write a browser. I remember when Edge was coming out they did some AMAs on social media that didn't inspire confidence so I doubled down on my resolve to never use a Microsoft browser. This news has me tripling down on never using a Microsoft OS. The double-down for that was stories of forced or unexpected OS updates.
- Hugsun 3y ago
  Edge is just a chromium reskin so it's probably decent. Doesn't make the practice acceptable. I'm never running windows again.
lallysingh 3y ago
They use the tactics because people stay, because they're probably too afraid to leave. As MS knows this, they're free to abuse as they wish.
thesuitonym 3y ago
Here on HN, I was once complaining about those "Sign up for our newsletter" popups that every site seems to have these days, and mentioned that if I see that, I close the tab immediately. A marketing guy replied and told me that the bounce rate is so much smaller than the conversion rate that not doing it would be crazy. You might be surprised how many people have absolutely no concern for software abusing them.

by cebert 3y ago

Microsoft is being so aggressive it makes me never want to attempt to try Bing or Edge ever. I wonder if they’ve calculated the number of folks they’re losing forever with these tactics.

philistine 3y ago

Considering Chrome gained its large user base through its own nag screens on Google.com I bet the people inside Microsoft consider it fair game. I don’t agree.

bzzzt 3y ago

I agree, it's an extremely disrespectful user interface if it ignores my choices.

askonomm 3y ago

My assumption is that they have and the number of gained users is still more than those they lose. After all, most people (normies) still believe whatever their OS tells them, and if it tells them that Edge is safer and faster, they have no reason to doubt that.

8fingerlouie 3y ago
While my personal preference is Firefox, i also have work to do, and most work sites will work perfectly with WebKit, and not so great with the Mozilla engine, so at my work PC i effectively had the choice between Chrome or Edge. I ended up going with Edge with the reasoning that both Chrome and Edge probably report a boatload of telemetry back to the mothership, as well as Windows 11, so there was no reason to share that telemetry with both Microsoft and Google if i could just share with one. On the plus side of things, Edge to me feels better. It's actually not half bad (privacy issues aside that exists in both Chrome and Edge).
- vasachi 3y ago
  Name one site, that works "not so great" with Firefox.
  - 8fingerlouie 3y ago
    Basically anything that relies on Microsoft SSO, which is pretty much everything "enterprise". It "works", but requires far too much manual intervention, with frequent authentication popups, as opposed to just using Chrome/Edge and be done with it. I'm not ruling out that some of it is due to service misconfiguration by the auth team and service teams, but configuration errors or not, the end user result is the same, Chrome or Edge simply offer the path of least resistance.
    - Lio 3y ago
      I'm using many commercial sites using Microsoft SSO. I don't think I've ever been aware of an issue with Firefox. Name and shame I say.
    - hnlmorg 3y ago
      I've almost never had an issue with Microsoft SSO in Firefox. Be that with corporate Azure AD or personal Microsoft accounts. I have had an issue with Linux and Microsoft SSO. Though that was more down to IT policies in Azure AD than it was Microsoft SSO specifically. The only time Firefox was an issue with Microsoft SSO was when I tried to buy Minecraft and something about the Xbox / Minecraft / MS SSO required Edge. But that was one instance out of hundreds of interactions with MS SSO
      - vladvasiliu 3y ago
        AzureAD doesn't work with Firefox on Linux if you need a yubikey or similar as a second factor. At some point FF wasn't able to do the user verification under linux (ask for a pin). Even though that's been fixed now, azuread still throws an error. Chromium on Linux works fine. I haven't tried FF on Windows.
    - Riverheart 3y ago
isodev 3y ago
Indeed, take the "we care about your privacy/cookie" nags - the industry collectively decided it's still better for their bottom line to put these on every site, every time you visit in the hopes that you'd get fed up or click the wrong button.
plagiarist 3y ago
I think most people are sleepwalking through life. They surely are gaining more than they lose. Just like the streaming services that have added advertising, or the car manufacturers who have climate control subscriptions.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Probably because for most people the important issues/choices in their life do not revolve around the choice of their OS, browser, streaming service, car brand, FOSS apps, etc. but around career, family, friends, kids, partying, traveling, having fun, etc. none of which depend on the choices of the former. You might call this "sleepwalking through life", while other people will call it "just living life" and not worrying about the unimportant pieces. Only HN tries to be an elitist stickler for these things which do not matter to 99% of people.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    All the other techie sites are sticklers for - and this is true - bad behavior. The reason is, techies live their lives more in browsers than other people. Just because most people don't, doesn't make it right.
lwkl 3y ago
Most people don't even read or understand that pop-up. My girlfriend for example used Bing and Edge for a few years without realising it. She only learned about different browsers and search engines when she started a trainee program in a performance marketing firm and managing ad campaigns became her job.

chrisandchris 3y ago

They'll loose probably the same amount of users they lost with the (annoying) "Do you really want to open $app?" dialogs (which I assume is just a rounding error). What strikes me is that such behaviour is legal (as a dominant software provider regarding OSs).

d_tr 3y ago
I just yesterday discovered the new S mode where you can only run apps from their store... You can disable it but you need to sign-in, after having had to work around that already during setup. They really treat the user like an idiot to be exploited, shamelessly.
- ThunderSizzle 3y ago
  Is that really new? Windows 8 has an S version that was exactly that, and I don't believe you could unlock it.

kome 3y ago

It reminds me when google, in the in the 2010s, was bundling chrome with random installers like a third rate spyware company, to push chrome everywhere. It worked for chrome, it will work with edge as well.

reaperducer 3y ago
Or like the Google of today, where I get "Sign in with Google" pop-ups on every other web site I visit. The whole tech industry is nothing but nag nag nag nag nag. Is that really the best strategy "the smartest people in the room" can come up with? Imitate a five-year-old?
- alt227 3y ago
  Unfortunately its the money paying the smartest people in the room that control the choices and make the decisions.

eps 3y ago

They are targeting users that did not install Chrome themselves. It's not uncommon for one technical person to "support" several non-technical relatives and friends. These are the targets, they are aplenty and MS wants them.

plagiarist 3y ago

Internet Explorer being absolute trash means you cannot trust them to write a browser. I remember when Edge was coming out they did some AMAs on social media that didn't inspire confidence so I doubled down on my resolve to never use a Microsoft browser. This news has me tripling down on never using a Microsoft OS. The double-down for that was stories of forced or unexpected OS updates.

Hugsun 3y ago
Edge is just a chromium reskin so it's probably decent. Doesn't make the practice acceptable. I'm never running windows again.

lallysingh 3y ago

They use the tactics because people stay, because they're probably too afraid to leave. As MS knows this, they're free to abuse as they wish.

thesuitonym 3y ago

Here on HN, I was once complaining about those "Sign up for our newsletter" popups that every site seems to have these days, and mentioned that if I see that, I close the tab immediately. A marketing guy replied and told me that the bounce rate is so much smaller than the conversion rate that not doing it would be crazy. You might be surprised how many people have absolutely no concern for software abusing them.