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I know some farmers in North Texas where they are pulling water out of a depleted aquifer. The water is starting to get salty so they're adjusting to salt toler

by leros 3y ago

I know some farmers in North Texas where they are pulling water out of a depleted aquifer. The water is starting to get salty so they're adjusting to salt tolerant variants of their crops. The ground is also starting to drop due to the aquifer draining. It's crazy to see

Gibbon1 3y ago
In the Santa Clara Valley farmers pumped enough water out of the ground in the early 20th century the ground dropped a dozen feet in some areas. Bad thing too is that once an aquifer settles like that it's carrying capacity is permanently reduced. Also in southern California there is a fair amount of previously productive farm land that is salted up and useless. That'll happen to the north Texas farmers you've mentioned. If they're having to switch crops they have another ten to twenty years and it's all over. Edit: Even better Jakarta is sinking so bad because of ground water pumping that the government plans to abandon it.
- neurostimulant 3y ago
  It's odd that foreign media reporting the Indonesian government plan to move the seat of government from Jakarta to Borneo as primarily motivated by the sinking of Jakarta (it affects the northern part of Jakarta, while the goverment is mostly operating in Central Jakarta), while the other more important (to the government) reasons are usually under-reported, such as to reduce the java-centric development, improving the government's efficiency by moving various government agency closer together instead of scattering everywhere over the huge megacity with traffic jams everywhere, and improving the government image because foreign diplomats will arrive in a pristine, green city instead of concrete jungle with bad air and traffic jams everywhere.
hinkley 3y ago
I did the math once and the amount of water we’ve pumped out of the aquifers worldwide and not replaced is worth more than a mm of sea level rise.
- TrainedMonkey 3y ago
  Please show the math and sources, I would love to see the sauce.
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    Me too because that sounds impossible to calculate.
    - ajb 3y ago
      What difficulty do you see? It's not going to be enough to appreciably change the ocean area, so isn't it just volume divided by the area of the ocean?
      - bongodongobob 3y ago
        Permeability, amount of precipitation, land usage, evaporation, avg temperature, temperature variation, soil composition, erosion, wells, flood plain, wetland, etc.
      - hinkley 3y ago
        I think it would be 1) how accurate are aquifer and coastline topography measures (1 mm wouldn’t be far off but what about a meter? That’s a lot of inundation). And 2) how much has subsidence permanently decreased the carrying capacity of aquifers? It could be a thing where only 50% of what is extracted can be returned. Either theoretically or safely (eg, earthquakes).
        ajb 3y ago
        Makes sense, thanks.
  - Loggias 3y ago
    [dead]
  - hinkley 3y ago
cameldrv 3y ago
I remember reading about how in the Soviet Union, there were places they were irrigating with brackish water and how they were now infertile. The obvious conclusion was that the Soviet economic system was busted to permanently destroy land for some temporary gain.
- throwup238 3y ago
  The American equivalent is the dust bowl. The ancient equivalent is the desertification of Mesopotamia. Etc. etc. Humans are bad at long term thinking.
  - WithinReason 3y ago
    Which species is good at long term thinking?
    - throwaway11460 3y ago
      Many animals move on before they destroy the fields and return later once it's regrown. Probably not much thinking but this is how your species survives. Perhaps humans think too much.
      - ratg13 3y ago
        These days I feel like it's more that every attempt at central planning gets weighted down in conspiracy theories. Sadly though, the public's reaction isn't totally unwarranted due to what has become acceptable behaviour for politicians.
    - boxed 3y ago
      Termites are pretty good. It's too expensive for them to rebuild their nests all the time so they don't destroy their surroundings.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    That’s different, it happened under capitalism, so it was an unforeseeable natural disaster that doesn’t reflect on the system in any way.
Sam6late 3y ago
Is it close to these huge sinkholes in Turkey? https://www.dailysabah.com/gallery/turkish-farmers-worry-about-crop-loss-sinkholes-amid-drought/images https://www.dailysabah.com/gallery/turkish-farmers-worry-abo... Because these in Texas seem tiny in comparison https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08/16/texas-drought-heat-aquifers-groundwater-stress/ https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08/16/texas-drought-heat-a...

by leros 3y ago

Gibbon1 3y ago

In the Santa Clara Valley farmers pumped enough water out of the ground in the early 20th century the ground dropped a dozen feet in some areas. Bad thing too is that once an aquifer settles like that it's carrying capacity is permanently reduced. Also in southern California there is a fair amount of previously productive farm land that is salted up and useless. That'll happen to the north Texas farmers you've mentioned. If they're having to switch crops they have another ten to twenty years and it's all over. Edit: Even better Jakarta is sinking so bad because of ground water pumping that the government plans to abandon it.

neurostimulant 3y ago
It's odd that foreign media reporting the Indonesian government plan to move the seat of government from Jakarta to Borneo as primarily motivated by the sinking of Jakarta (it affects the northern part of Jakarta, while the goverment is mostly operating in Central Jakarta), while the other more important (to the government) reasons are usually under-reported, such as to reduce the java-centric development, improving the government's efficiency by moving various government agency closer together instead of scattering everywhere over the huge megacity with traffic jams everywhere, and improving the government image because foreign diplomats will arrive in a pristine, green city instead of concrete jungle with bad air and traffic jams everywhere.

hinkley 3y ago

I did the math once and the amount of water we’ve pumped out of the aquifers worldwide and not replaced is worth more than a mm of sea level rise.

TrainedMonkey 3y ago
Please show the math and sources, I would love to see the sauce.
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  Me too because that sounds impossible to calculate.
  - ajb 3y ago
    What difficulty do you see? It's not going to be enough to appreciably change the ocean area, so isn't it just volume divided by the area of the ocean?
    - bongodongobob 3y ago
      Permeability, amount of precipitation, land usage, evaporation, avg temperature, temperature variation, soil composition, erosion, wells, flood plain, wetland, etc.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      I think it would be 1) how accurate are aquifer and coastline topography measures (1 mm wouldn’t be far off but what about a meter? That’s a lot of inundation). And 2) how much has subsidence permanently decreased the carrying capacity of aquifers? It could be a thing where only 50% of what is extracted can be returned. Either theoretically or safely (eg, earthquakes).
      - ajb 3y ago
        Makes sense, thanks.
- Loggias 3y ago
  [dead]
- hinkley 3y ago

cameldrv 3y ago

I remember reading about how in the Soviet Union, there were places they were irrigating with brackish water and how they were now infertile. The obvious conclusion was that the Soviet economic system was busted to permanently destroy land for some temporary gain.

throwup238 3y ago
The American equivalent is the dust bowl. The ancient equivalent is the desertification of Mesopotamia. Etc. etc. Humans are bad at long term thinking.
- WithinReason 3y ago
  Which species is good at long term thinking?
  - throwaway11460 3y ago
    Many animals move on before they destroy the fields and return later once it's regrown. Probably not much thinking but this is how your species survives. Perhaps humans think too much.
    - ratg13 3y ago
      These days I feel like it's more that every attempt at central planning gets weighted down in conspiracy theories. Sadly though, the public's reaction isn't totally unwarranted due to what has become acceptable behaviour for politicians.
  - boxed 3y ago
    Termites are pretty good. It's too expensive for them to rebuild their nests all the time so they don't destroy their surroundings.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  That’s different, it happened under capitalism, so it was an unforeseeable natural disaster that doesn’t reflect on the system in any way.

Sam6late 3y ago

Is it close to these huge sinkholes in Turkey? https://www.dailysabah.com/gallery/turkish-farmers-worry-about-crop-loss-sinkholes-amid-drought/images https://www.dailysabah.com/gallery/turkish-farmers-worry-abo... Because these in Texas seem tiny in comparison https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08/16/texas-drought-heat-aquifers-groundwater-stress/ https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08/16/texas-drought-heat-a...