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For me personally, it's definitely the platform. Requiring a Meta / Facebook account for already-purchased Oculuses, retroactively bricking devices and deleting

For me personally, it's definitely the platform. Requiring a Meta / Facebook account for already-purchased Oculuses, retroactively bricking devices and deleting software which was bought before that requirement, has put Oculus firmly in the "hardware I will never consider in my life" camp. It's an incredible amount of goodwill to burn from a company with so little to spare, and I'm surprised it hasn't come up yet in this thread or in the blogpost. Meta has fundamental trustability issues.

cade 3y ago
100% this. I paid the increasingly common "privacy and control premium" for a Valve Index (which I'm very happy with) to avoid the entanglements of borrowing a headset from Meta for a large, up front, non-refundable fee.
- timschmidt 3y ago
  Valve makes great unlocked hardware. I don't see the same argument working with Apple, however. Can't even upgrade an SSD in a recent mac not to mention individually cryptographically signed components like cameras and touch pads which can't be replaced without a visit to an Apple-certified repair person. Renting hardware indeed.
mark_l_watson 3y ago
Thanks for your comment. I love just a few things on my Quest 2, and several times a week I take ten minute breaks for ping pong, something meditative, tai chi, etc. You reminded me of the negative aspects of the Meta/Facebook corporate mass, and they should clean up their act in privacy, etc. for VR in the same way they have basically purchased good will in the AI community for releasing LLM model weights. Apologies for going off topic, but Apple similarly really needs to trade a little profit for buying themselves a better “look” because they are looking a little tarnished also.
Loggias 3y ago
[dead]
wkat4242 3y ago
> Requiring a Meta / Facebook account for already-purchased Oculuses, retroactively bricking devices and deleting software which was bought before that requirement You always needed an Oculus account and they didn't brick anything. You did have to migrate from an Oculus to meta account but a Facebook account was never required on a quest 1 (or 3). Is a meta account really that different from an Oculus account? The quest 1 has been deprecated yes but not bricked.
ericmcer 3y ago
That isn’t really what the parent is talking about at all… If your issue is with the device requiring connection with an external account, Vision Pro requires an AppleID which will tie it to way more of your digital things than a Facebook login.
- tw04 3y ago
  Apple’s business model isn’t selling your personal information. In fact they go out of their way to protect your personal info. Requiring an AppleID is significantly less concerning than requiring a Facebook account.
  - thefz 3y ago
    They are in PRISM just like any other, stop believing this lie.
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      PRISM is just NSA's management systems for sending lawful (kinda) information requests for specific accounts under FISA act to the companies. If data is not leaving your device (e.g not synced into iCloud) then they can't get it. Also if you opt-in for apple's advanced data encryption[0] they can't even get that because your data is fully e2e encrypted and the key is only stored on your phone. Which is probably why FBI had to sue Apple to get data on Bernardino terries and then worked around by hacking into their devices. Show me another big tech company that does this. [0] - https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651
      - thefz 3y ago
        Don't believe their lies. They let agencies directly into their supply line. Nobody is above the law and they must comply like any other. The Bernardino case was a stunt to get people believing this lie. All the other cases in which Apple complies are not made publi, though. Corporations are not your friend.
parentheses 3y ago
You're comparing a $300 product from a company that profits on analyzing their customers to a $3500 product from a hardware company. This is not a fair comparison. They're motivated differently. Furthermore, the "anti-account" viewpoint is making a privacy issue out of a pinch or friction point. Accounts are required for both devices. If you bought a device which allowed you to buy apps, the experience would be horrible without an account. If most people are willing and it's a better experience, it makes sense to force everyone into the same rails to reduce implementation cost. If it increases revenue, there's yet another reason to do it. It's ridiculous to be in an ideological minority and expect a company to bend to that when it's not in their best interest. While I prefer Apple products because <yada yada>, Meta and Apple are doing the same thing here. The only difference is that Apple has higher current trustworthiness. This is also the reason they can release a $3500 headset.
- vikramkr 3y ago
  Why isn't that a fair comparison? If that's an important factor in their purchase decision that's completely fair. You can compare whatever you want when you're evaluating subjective criteria for a purchase decision - and the socioeconomic rationale behind the motivations leading to the decisions the companies made is interesting but not relevant to the comparison at decision point.
wlesieutre 3y ago
I’ve had a Quest 1 for years, it always required an Oculus account, and since rebranding as Meta it now requires a Meta account, which my Oculus account was converted into. It’s not bricked and hasn’t deleted my software, I’m curious what exactly you’re referring to with that.
backtoyoujim 3y ago
Isn't this website run by people that school people to do just that ?

cade 3y ago

100% this. I paid the increasingly common "privacy and control premium" for a Valve Index (which I'm very happy with) to avoid the entanglements of borrowing a headset from Meta for a large, up front, non-refundable fee.

timschmidt 3y ago
Valve makes great unlocked hardware. I don't see the same argument working with Apple, however. Can't even upgrade an SSD in a recent mac not to mention individually cryptographically signed components like cameras and touch pads which can't be replaced without a visit to an Apple-certified repair person. Renting hardware indeed.

mark_l_watson 3y ago

Thanks for your comment. I love just a few things on my Quest 2, and several times a week I take ten minute breaks for ping pong, something meditative, tai chi, etc. You reminded me of the negative aspects of the Meta/Facebook corporate mass, and they should clean up their act in privacy, etc. for VR in the same way they have basically purchased good will in the AI community for releasing LLM model weights. Apologies for going off topic, but Apple similarly really needs to trade a little profit for buying themselves a better “look” because they are looking a little tarnished also.

Loggias 3y ago

[dead]

wkat4242 3y ago

> Requiring a Meta / Facebook account for already-purchased Oculuses, retroactively bricking devices and deleting software which was bought before that requirement You always needed an Oculus account and they didn't brick anything. You did have to migrate from an Oculus to meta account but a Facebook account was never required on a quest 1 (or 3). Is a meta account really that different from an Oculus account? The quest 1 has been deprecated yes but not bricked.

ericmcer 3y ago

That isn’t really what the parent is talking about at all… If your issue is with the device requiring connection with an external account, Vision Pro requires an AppleID which will tie it to way more of your digital things than a Facebook login.

tw04 3y ago
Apple’s business model isn’t selling your personal information. In fact they go out of their way to protect your personal info. Requiring an AppleID is significantly less concerning than requiring a Facebook account.
- thefz 3y ago
  They are in PRISM just like any other, stop believing this lie.
  - dilyevsky 3y ago
    PRISM is just NSA's management systems for sending lawful (kinda) information requests for specific accounts under FISA act to the companies. If data is not leaving your device (e.g not synced into iCloud) then they can't get it. Also if you opt-in for apple's advanced data encryption[0] they can't even get that because your data is fully e2e encrypted and the key is only stored on your phone. Which is probably why FBI had to sue Apple to get data on Bernardino terries and then worked around by hacking into their devices. Show me another big tech company that does this. [0] - https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651
    - thefz 3y ago
      Don't believe their lies. They let agencies directly into their supply line. Nobody is above the law and they must comply like any other. The Bernardino case was a stunt to get people believing this lie. All the other cases in which Apple complies are not made publi, though. Corporations are not your friend.

parentheses 3y ago

You're comparing a $300 product from a company that profits on analyzing their customers to a $3500 product from a hardware company. This is not a fair comparison. They're motivated differently. Furthermore, the "anti-account" viewpoint is making a privacy issue out of a pinch or friction point. Accounts are required for both devices. If you bought a device which allowed you to buy apps, the experience would be horrible without an account. If most people are willing and it's a better experience, it makes sense to force everyone into the same rails to reduce implementation cost. If it increases revenue, there's yet another reason to do it. It's ridiculous to be in an ideological minority and expect a company to bend to that when it's not in their best interest. While I prefer Apple products because <yada yada>, Meta and Apple are doing the same thing here. The only difference is that Apple has higher current trustworthiness. This is also the reason they can release a $3500 headset.

vikramkr 3y ago
Why isn't that a fair comparison? If that's an important factor in their purchase decision that's completely fair. You can compare whatever you want when you're evaluating subjective criteria for a purchase decision - and the socioeconomic rationale behind the motivations leading to the decisions the companies made is interesting but not relevant to the comparison at decision point.

wlesieutre 3y ago

I’ve had a Quest 1 for years, it always required an Oculus account, and since rebranding as Meta it now requires a Meta account, which my Oculus account was converted into. It’s not bricked and hasn’t deleted my software, I’m curious what exactly you’re referring to with that.

backtoyoujim 3y ago

Isn't this website run by people that school people to do just that ?