4 ms·

Man pleads guilty to genetically engineering giant hybrid sheep

26 points by COGlory 3y ago

ncr100 3y ago
Releasing GM sheep into the wild would be worse. This seems closer to that but not quite, if I'm reading this right. > "between 2013 and 2021 to genetically engineer a larger hybrid sheep species that would garner higher prices from shooting preserves" Could corrupt the wild species of it escapes and breeds with natural herds.
hx8 3y ago
> Schubarth sent genetic material from the argali sheep to a lab to create cloned embryos, which he then implanted in a female sheep on his ranch, according to the DOJ, which produced a single, pure genetic male All of the other crimes seem to be preparing for or covering up this one action. I'm actually surprised that any of this activity is illegal. Why is it perfectly find to sell genetically modified corn but not animals? Why was it okay to clone dolly the sheep for science, but not for commerce? In 20 years don't be surprised if America is behind on bio-tech.
- docandrew 3y ago
  I was kinda wondering the same thing. I guess importing non-native species can be bad, but cross-breeding is something we’ve done for millenia. Seems like his real crime was doing this while not being an employee of Monsanto.
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    The headline is misleading. He's being charged with violating the Lacey Act which prohibits owning/hunting/trading certain plants or wildlife. Today it's mainly used to punish people for importing non-native species of animals. I can't know exactly what parts of the Lacey Act he was accused of violating (it's extremely broad), but it would make sense to me that he's being charged because of the unlicensed import of the argali sheep. It's not the cross-breeding that's illegal, it's what he's cross-breeding and how he got it that's illegal.
    - docandrew 3y ago
      I read the article, I still think it’s overly harsh punishment.
- procgen 3y ago
  It's illegal because it threatens the viability and health of native populations of animals.
  - hx8 3y ago
    Sheep aren't native to the US. Doesn't the entire species threaten the viability and health of native populations because it is competing for resources that native animals could be consuming? I don't see how having a new type of sheep is a step too far.
    - kyleamazza 3y ago
      The problem is that we don't (as far as I know) have the tools or knowledge on how to accurately assess the impact. So, the more conservative option of "don't mess with it" makes sense here, considering that other species' introductions to other ecosystems have been disastrous.
    - Teknomancer 3y ago
      Ummm, no. The species of bighorn sheep native to the Rocky Mountains is scientifically referred to as Ovis canadensis canadensis. This is one of several subspecies of bighorn sheep, distinguished by its habitat, physical characteristics, and behavior, adapted to the rugged terrain and climate of the Rocky Mountains stretching from Canada to the southwestern United States.
  - washadjeffmad 3y ago
    I'd reframe to portray that it hasn't been approved to do so by a regulatory body like the EPA, or else GM mosquitoes [1] wouldn't exist. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mosquitoes/mosquito-control/community/emerging-methods/genetically-modified-mosquitoes.html https://www.cdc.gov/mosquitoes/mosquito-control/community/em... The genetic modifications were classified as a biocontrol or pesticide, allowing them fall under the existing EUP process. I wonder whether showing that these sheep were being used to control a local crop pest would qualify them as a technical argument? :D
    - 3y ago
- jprete 3y ago
  He "create[d] giant sheep hybrids to sell the species to hunting facilities", including "import[ing] parts of Marco Polo argali sheep, which is the largest sheep species in the world, from Kyrgyzstan into the U.S. without declaring the importation" and "forg[ing] veterinary inspection certificates, falsely claiming that the sheep were legally permitted species". I think much of this would be just as illegal if he'd smuggled an entire male sheep from Kyrgyzstan and bred it, but it's harder to smuggle a live sheep than just its genetic material.
  - TheJoeMan 3y ago
    Checking a checkbox: “is this a legal species yes/no”… forgery! DHL a test tube: “Importing body parts illegally”
    - jprete 3y ago
      Yes, and dropping the wrong test tube onto a subway platform can be an act of biological terrorism. Small actions can have enormous consequences.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MithrilTuxedo 3y ago
Aside from illegally importing a chunk of sheep to clone one, this is just animal husbandry. They weren't using equipment to modify the genome in any way. They were just breeding and selecting for a new kind of sheep. Humanity has been doing this for tens of thousands of years.
pvg 3y ago
Discussed the other day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368
ortusdux 3y ago
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368
throwaway74432 3y ago
Apparently the law being violated was the Lacey Act: The Lacey Act prohibits interstate trade in wildlife that has been taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of federal or state law. The Lacey Act also prohibits the interstate sale of wildlife that has been falsely labeled. The Act is one of the most powerful tools the United States has to combat wildlife trafficking and prevent ecological invasion by injurious wildlife. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/montana-man-pleads-guilty-federal-wildlife-trafficking-charges-part-yearslong-effort-create https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/montana-man-pleads-guilty-fed...
HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago
Seems rather sad, if not pathetic, to go to all this effort to clone/breed giant sheep just so someone can then pay to shoot it and put the head on their wall. It reminds me of the Romans capturing lions, elephants etc in Africa, transporting them across the mediterranian by sailboat, just to entertain the crowds by then killing them in the arena.
- dessimus 3y ago
  At least the Romans were bringing apex predators and not livestock. Might as well hunt ballistic gel dummies for all the risk involved.
odyssey7 3y ago
Years ago I toured an aquaculture research facility producing fish that grew (iirc) faster and larger than natural specimens. I asked about the ethics considering what might happen to ecosystems if any of the fish made it into the wild, and I was told plainly that they wouldn’t get out.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
It actually is much closer to just normal breeding than genetic engineering. Basically, instead of trying to smuggle a real live argoli sheep, he smuggled genetic material used that to produce a argoli sheep and is using artificial insemination to breed that with Montana sheep. “Genetic engineering” isn’t really doing anything except to get hold of an argoli sheep. The only bonafide “genetic engineering” going on artificial insemination based hybridization which has been going on for centuries at least. The “genetic engineering” is basically law enforcement clickbait to make the crime seem scarier or more novel than it really is.
zogrodea 3y ago
The thing that bothers me the most about this article is that the sheep were "created" for the purpose of hunting and taking them as trophies. A totally vain and senseless act and not worth taking a creature's life for. Some humans really are the worst.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

26 points by COGlory 3y ago

Releasing GM sheep into the wild would be worse. This seems closer to that but not quite, if I'm reading this right. > "between 2013 and 2021 to genetically engineer a larger hybrid sheep species that would garner higher prices from shooting preserves" Could corrupt the wild species of it escapes and breeds with natural herds.

hx8 3y ago

> Schubarth sent genetic material from the argali sheep to a lab to create cloned embryos, which he then implanted in a female sheep on his ranch, according to the DOJ, which produced a single, pure genetic male All of the other crimes seem to be preparing for or covering up this one action. I'm actually surprised that any of this activity is illegal. Why is it perfectly find to sell genetically modified corn but not animals? Why was it okay to clone dolly the sheep for science, but not for commerce? In 20 years don't be surprised if America is behind on bio-tech.

docandrew 3y ago
I was kinda wondering the same thing. I guess importing non-native species can be bad, but cross-breeding is something we’ve done for millenia. Seems like his real crime was doing this while not being an employee of Monsanto.
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  The headline is misleading. He's being charged with violating the Lacey Act which prohibits owning/hunting/trading certain plants or wildlife. Today it's mainly used to punish people for importing non-native species of animals. I can't know exactly what parts of the Lacey Act he was accused of violating (it's extremely broad), but it would make sense to me that he's being charged because of the unlicensed import of the argali sheep. It's not the cross-breeding that's illegal, it's what he's cross-breeding and how he got it that's illegal.
  - docandrew 3y ago
    I read the article, I still think it’s overly harsh punishment.
procgen 3y ago
It's illegal because it threatens the viability and health of native populations of animals.
- hx8 3y ago
  Sheep aren't native to the US. Doesn't the entire species threaten the viability and health of native populations because it is competing for resources that native animals could be consuming? I don't see how having a new type of sheep is a step too far.
  - kyleamazza 3y ago
    The problem is that we don't (as far as I know) have the tools or knowledge on how to accurately assess the impact. So, the more conservative option of "don't mess with it" makes sense here, considering that other species' introductions to other ecosystems have been disastrous.
  - Teknomancer 3y ago
    Ummm, no. The species of bighorn sheep native to the Rocky Mountains is scientifically referred to as Ovis canadensis canadensis. This is one of several subspecies of bighorn sheep, distinguished by its habitat, physical characteristics, and behavior, adapted to the rugged terrain and climate of the Rocky Mountains stretching from Canada to the southwestern United States.
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  I'd reframe to portray that it hasn't been approved to do so by a regulatory body like the EPA, or else GM mosquitoes [1] wouldn't exist. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mosquitoes/mosquito-control/community/emerging-methods/genetically-modified-mosquitoes.html https://www.cdc.gov/mosquitoes/mosquito-control/community/em... The genetic modifications were classified as a biocontrol or pesticide, allowing them fall under the existing EUP process. I wonder whether showing that these sheep were being used to control a local crop pest would qualify them as a technical argument? :D
  - 3y ago
jprete 3y ago
He "create[d] giant sheep hybrids to sell the species to hunting facilities", including "import[ing] parts of Marco Polo argali sheep, which is the largest sheep species in the world, from Kyrgyzstan into the U.S. without declaring the importation" and "forg[ing] veterinary inspection certificates, falsely claiming that the sheep were legally permitted species". I think much of this would be just as illegal if he'd smuggled an entire male sheep from Kyrgyzstan and bred it, but it's harder to smuggle a live sheep than just its genetic material.
- TheJoeMan 3y ago
  Checking a checkbox: “is this a legal species yes/no”… forgery! DHL a test tube: “Importing body parts illegally”
  - jprete 3y ago
    Yes, and dropping the wrong test tube onto a subway platform can be an act of biological terrorism. Small actions can have enormous consequences.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

MithrilTuxedo 3y ago

Aside from illegally importing a chunk of sheep to clone one, this is just animal husbandry. They weren't using equipment to modify the genome in any way. They were just breeding and selecting for a new kind of sheep. Humanity has been doing this for tens of thousands of years.

pvg 3y ago

Discussed the other day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368

ortusdux 3y ago

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39693368

throwaway74432 3y ago

Apparently the law being violated was the Lacey Act: The Lacey Act prohibits interstate trade in wildlife that has been taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of federal or state law. The Lacey Act also prohibits the interstate sale of wildlife that has been falsely labeled. The Act is one of the most powerful tools the United States has to combat wildlife trafficking and prevent ecological invasion by injurious wildlife. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/montana-man-pleads-guilty-federal-wildlife-trafficking-charges-part-yearslong-effort-create https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/montana-man-pleads-guilty-fed...

HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago

Seems rather sad, if not pathetic, to go to all this effort to clone/breed giant sheep just so someone can then pay to shoot it and put the head on their wall. It reminds me of the Romans capturing lions, elephants etc in Africa, transporting them across the mediterranian by sailboat, just to entertain the crowds by then killing them in the arena.

dessimus 3y ago
At least the Romans were bringing apex predators and not livestock. Might as well hunt ballistic gel dummies for all the risk involved.

odyssey7 3y ago

Years ago I toured an aquaculture research facility producing fish that grew (iirc) faster and larger than natural specimens. I asked about the ethics considering what might happen to ecosystems if any of the fish made it into the wild, and I was told plainly that they wouldn’t get out.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

It actually is much closer to just normal breeding than genetic engineering. Basically, instead of trying to smuggle a real live argoli sheep, he smuggled genetic material used that to produce a argoli sheep and is using artificial insemination to breed that with Montana sheep. “Genetic engineering” isn’t really doing anything except to get hold of an argoli sheep. The only bonafide “genetic engineering” going on artificial insemination based hybridization which has been going on for centuries at least. The “genetic engineering” is basically law enforcement clickbait to make the crime seem scarier or more novel than it really is.

zogrodea 3y ago

The thing that bothers me the most about this article is that the sheep were "created" for the purpose of hunting and taking them as trophies. A totally vain and senseless act and not worth taking a creature's life for. Some humans really are the worst.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]