6 ms·

More details at Washington Univ' site: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neurons-help-flush-waste-out-of-brain-during-sleep/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neuro

by achow 3y ago

More details at Washington Univ' site: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neurons-help-flush-waste-out-of-brain-during-sleep/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neurons-help-flush-waste-out... Could not find any free access to the paper, even though the Univ' says "This work was supported by the National Institutes of Health (NIH); the BJC Investigators Program at Washington University; and the Neuroscience Innovation Foundation." These kind of grant funded research should be accessible at the least from the Univ' websites.

VagabundoP 3y ago
Checked and it was published through Nature: Jiang-Xie, LF., Drieu, A., Bhasiin, K. et al. Neuronal dynamics direct cerebrospinal fluid perfusion and brain clearance. Nature 627, 157–164 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07108-6 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07108-6 Every Uni should have access through your library system.
- gapan 3y ago
  I think the point was that every member of the public should have access to publicly funded research at least through the university's website, rather than at least everyone currently in universities should have access.
  - samstave 3y ago
    AaronSwartz+1*
    - lloeki 3y ago
      Swartz. Schwartz is an actor.
      - samstave 3y ago
        >"Schwartz is an actor." Such a beautiful, subtle pun.
  - baubino 3y ago
    I agree but I also know (as a university employee) that the reason they don’t do this is because then they would have to pay for and manage the hosting of hundreds of thousands of articles. From the university’s perspective, managing and hosting articles is exactly what publishers do, so universities cede that work to publishers. What is needed is a public database of all publicly-funded research.
    - achow 3y ago
      How hard or expensive is it to embed a PDF link in the Univ news article. It maybe less harder and expensive than the stock image that they have used. Stanford maintains an extensive catalog of research papers: https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/in00000064276 https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/in00000064276
    - mock-possum 3y ago
      Sounds like a good cost for the government to subsidize.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      some sort of scientific hub, one might say
    - jimberlage 3y ago
      At first I was like, “oh, that’s a reasonable perspective,” and then I thought about it more and it kinda isn’t? When I buy a keyboard, the manufacturer doesn’t run a shipping company, so they use $x from the purchase price to subcontract shipping. (They tell me it’s separate at billing, but they don’t make me ring up DSL myself either.) When I hire an electrician, they buy materials from Home Depot, so they use $x from the purchase price for materials. (They sometimes break down the bill into materials and labor, but they don’t make me drive to Home Depot myself and buy every part.) When the public hires academics to do research, they have administrative overhead and have to hire a publisher, so they use $x from the grant for administrative overhead and… Abdicate responsibility for the $y needed for publishing and pretend the public didn’t intend for part of the grant money to go to that??
  - VagabundoP 3y ago
    I agree publicly funded research should not be siloed in anyway and should be in the public domain.
- achow 3y ago
  Yes, it was published through Nature. But what stops Univ' site to have original research paper available for download? Nature magazine is just a distribution channel (they did not sponsor the research so should not have exclusive rights on it). Left college long time ago; and do not have access to any library system.
  - SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
    If you email the authors they might be happy to send you a copy - scientists tend to be in favour of the free exchange of information, there's no restriction on them sharing their paper if they choose to, and they don't get royalties from journal subscriptions so they have no vested interest in paywalling their research
    - bayindirh 3y ago
      Not all of them. I sent a couple of such mails, to only get back the freely available summary PDFs back. Even with the same checksum with the ones on the web.
      - cj 3y ago
        Yep. My dog was part of a study at UC Davis. All I was able to get was an abstract.
      - 0xEF 3y ago
        True, but I'd say it's still worth the email asking. I used to work in the mental health field requested paywalled research papers on cognitive and developmental disabilities pretty regularly, and about 80% of the people I contacted sent the paper to me without much question. The more we all do it, the more expected the practice becomes and with any luck, these money-grubbing journals will take note and start offering copies at a minimal fee or time-limited access.
        bayindirh 3y ago
        Of course. I'm a big proponent of Open Access. OTOH, Elsevier seems to give 50 days of Open Access via share links. I didn't know that. I was away from academic arena for some time. Looks like I'll be returning soon-ish.
JPLeRouzic 3y ago
More discussion about this paper on ALZ forum: https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/do-sleep-rhythms-create-ion-waves-rinse-brain https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/do-sleep-rhythms...
_yb2s 3y ago
All NIH funded research is freely open access by law. In this case it seems the authors didn’t pay the (crazy expensive) Nature open access fee. They will have to upload a free PDF to PubMed manually, but have up to a year to do so, and don’t seem to have done it yet.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  Is Nature’s open access fee really that crazy? Last time I checked it was a few thousand dollars. And it’s paid once, to make the whole thing open perpetually. It certainly seems better than having the people interested in reading it pay $30-40 each. Of course, this is also based on the few times I’ve heard researchers talk about the ways they could spend their grant money. $2k to Nature sounds like a great deal by comparison. Note: Worked for Nature in the past.
  - _yb2s 3y ago
    It’s over $12k, which seems insane, and is 5-10x what other journals charge. These journals are a racket… volunteer editors, volunteer reviewers, and thousands for what amounts to PDF hosting… which they also charge every school and library in the world on the other end.
  - hx8 3y ago
    Yes, I wouldn't expect someone to pay a few thousand dollars to Nature when PubMed will do the same job for free. I think the role of academic journals is decreasing as open and tech-savvy solutions to information sharing and screening are being deployed.
    - Aeolun 3y ago
      Depends, PubMed will happily take any article. I know for a fact that Nature does it’s own independent review of whatever is published (or did, years ago anyway). It’s not a guarantee of course, there’s been enough instances of review failure even in Nature, but it’s not the same as free access. Ultimately what you are paying for is curation.

by achow 3y ago

VagabundoP 3y ago

Checked and it was published through Nature: Jiang-Xie, LF., Drieu, A., Bhasiin, K. et al. Neuronal dynamics direct cerebrospinal fluid perfusion and brain clearance. Nature 627, 157–164 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07108-6 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07108-6 Every Uni should have access through your library system.

gapan 3y ago
I think the point was that every member of the public should have access to publicly funded research at least through the university's website, rather than at least everyone currently in universities should have access.
- samstave 3y ago
  AaronSwartz+1*
  - lloeki 3y ago
    Swartz. Schwartz is an actor.
    - samstave 3y ago
      >"Schwartz is an actor." Such a beautiful, subtle pun.
- baubino 3y ago
  I agree but I also know (as a university employee) that the reason they don’t do this is because then they would have to pay for and manage the hosting of hundreds of thousands of articles. From the university’s perspective, managing and hosting articles is exactly what publishers do, so universities cede that work to publishers. What is needed is a public database of all publicly-funded research.
  - achow 3y ago
    How hard or expensive is it to embed a PDF link in the Univ news article. It maybe less harder and expensive than the stock image that they have used. Stanford maintains an extensive catalog of research papers: https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/in00000064276 https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/in00000064276
  - mock-possum 3y ago
    Sounds like a good cost for the government to subsidize.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    some sort of scientific hub, one might say
  - jimberlage 3y ago
    At first I was like, “oh, that’s a reasonable perspective,” and then I thought about it more and it kinda isn’t? When I buy a keyboard, the manufacturer doesn’t run a shipping company, so they use $x from the purchase price to subcontract shipping. (They tell me it’s separate at billing, but they don’t make me ring up DSL myself either.) When I hire an electrician, they buy materials from Home Depot, so they use $x from the purchase price for materials. (They sometimes break down the bill into materials and labor, but they don’t make me drive to Home Depot myself and buy every part.) When the public hires academics to do research, they have administrative overhead and have to hire a publisher, so they use $x from the grant for administrative overhead and… Abdicate responsibility for the $y needed for publishing and pretend the public didn’t intend for part of the grant money to go to that??
- VagabundoP 3y ago
  I agree publicly funded research should not be siloed in anyway and should be in the public domain.
achow 3y ago
Yes, it was published through Nature. But what stops Univ' site to have original research paper available for download? Nature magazine is just a distribution channel (they did not sponsor the research so should not have exclusive rights on it). Left college long time ago; and do not have access to any library system.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
  If you email the authors they might be happy to send you a copy - scientists tend to be in favour of the free exchange of information, there's no restriction on them sharing their paper if they choose to, and they don't get royalties from journal subscriptions so they have no vested interest in paywalling their research
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    Not all of them. I sent a couple of such mails, to only get back the freely available summary PDFs back. Even with the same checksum with the ones on the web.
    - cj 3y ago
      Yep. My dog was part of a study at UC Davis. All I was able to get was an abstract.
    - 0xEF 3y ago
      True, but I'd say it's still worth the email asking. I used to work in the mental health field requested paywalled research papers on cognitive and developmental disabilities pretty regularly, and about 80% of the people I contacted sent the paper to me without much question. The more we all do it, the more expected the practice becomes and with any luck, these money-grubbing journals will take note and start offering copies at a minimal fee or time-limited access.
      - bayindirh 3y ago
        Of course. I'm a big proponent of Open Access. OTOH, Elsevier seems to give 50 days of Open Access via share links. I didn't know that. I was away from academic arena for some time. Looks like I'll be returning soon-ish.

JPLeRouzic 3y ago

More discussion about this paper on ALZ forum: https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/do-sleep-rhythms-create-ion-waves-rinse-brain https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/do-sleep-rhythms...

_yb2s 3y ago

All NIH funded research is freely open access by law. In this case it seems the authors didn’t pay the (crazy expensive) Nature open access fee. They will have to upload a free PDF to PubMed manually, but have up to a year to do so, and don’t seem to have done it yet.

Aeolun 3y ago
Is Nature’s open access fee really that crazy? Last time I checked it was a few thousand dollars. And it’s paid once, to make the whole thing open perpetually. It certainly seems better than having the people interested in reading it pay $30-40 each. Of course, this is also based on the few times I’ve heard researchers talk about the ways they could spend their grant money. $2k to Nature sounds like a great deal by comparison. Note: Worked for Nature in the past.
- _yb2s 3y ago
  It’s over $12k, which seems insane, and is 5-10x what other journals charge. These journals are a racket… volunteer editors, volunteer reviewers, and thousands for what amounts to PDF hosting… which they also charge every school and library in the world on the other end.
- hx8 3y ago
  Yes, I wouldn't expect someone to pay a few thousand dollars to Nature when PubMed will do the same job for free. I think the role of academic journals is decreasing as open and tech-savvy solutions to information sharing and screening are being deployed.
  - Aeolun 3y ago
    Depends, PubMed will happily take any article. I know for a fact that Nature does it’s own independent review of whatever is published (or did, years ago anyway). It’s not a guarantee of course, there’s been enough instances of review failure even in Nature, but it’s not the same as free access. Ultimately what you are paying for is curation.