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Why do it here then? We have a ridiculous amount of land where we could put solar farms, no?

WJW 3y ago
Because offshore wind can be even cheaper than onshore solar, basically. It all depends on local grid conditions of course.
philipkglass 3y ago
There are a couple of cases for offshore wind in the US: - To supply power to densely populated coastal urban areas, where there isn't a lot of free land for onshore farms nearby. - To provide some after-dark generation in areas where daytime solar power already surpasses the limits of demand. The second case gets weaker if there is room for onshore wind power in the same region, or if storage prices keep falling so that solar electricity can be used after dark. The second case gets a little stronger if a region's highest seasonal electricity demand occurs in winter instead of summer.
- xen2xen1 3y ago
  Offshore wind farms can also slow down hurricanes. Studies have shown that a large wind farm could reduce a storm by a whole category level. Not a small thing.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - bretpiatt 3y ago
      TLDR: This is a real thing, turbines have built in protection, and there innovating on the whole system to really do this. It's a potential game changer vs. trying to build seawalls or levees. Read more, "Taming hurricanes with arrays of offshore wind turbines", https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2120 https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2120 ...and..., "Wind Turbines in Extreme Weather: Solutions for Hurricane Resiliency", https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/wind-turbines-extreme-weather-solutions-hurricane-resiliency https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/wind-turbines-extreme-w...
      - theultdev 3y ago
        I'm aware of the current built in protections we deploy for land installations. Those prototypes for hurricane prone sea installations do look promising though, especially the downwind blades. Looking forward to seeing successful test data for these blades, it's certainly not going to be easy to withstand these forces.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      How far do you think nearly-horizontal wind is going to carry a huge piece of metal? Unless you think it's not going to sink pretty quickly after it lands?
      - theultdev 3y ago
        I don't know, do you know how far it can carry them? It can carry roofs of trailer homes over miles after ripping them off, I believe it can carry wind turbine blade multiple miles. Have you never heard of massive schools of fish, including sharks, being sucked up and carried miles away onto land? I think you underestimate the power of a hurricane. Regardless, it's a reasonable concern to have, is it not? It should be proven to be safe, not the other way around. Don't assume something isn't hazardous.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        > it can carry roofs of trailer homes over miles after ripping them off Yeah, across land with nothing to sink into. > Have you never heard of massive schools of fish, including sharks, being sucked up and carried miles away onto land? From a hurricane, not a tornado? I have not heard of that.
        theultdev 3y ago
        > Yeah, across land. You do know hurricanes lose power when they hit land right? > From a hurricane, not a tornado? Tornadoes do. Hurricanes do as well. Why do you think there would be any difference? Hurricanes are generally more powerful.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        Cite something. > Why do you think there would be any difference? The direction the air currents go.
        theultdev 3y ago
  - bilsbie 3y ago
    Wow I’ve heard of that. Do you have further reading I could check out? That’s actually worth more than the energy generation.
pixl97 3y ago
Because NY state isn't going to be the most efficient place to put solar farms. And running distribution long distances is also expensive and inefficient.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rowls66 3y ago
  NY state has plenty of room for onshore wind, just not in the places where most of the people are.
thinkcontext 3y ago
To add some more points the others have made: - You can make the turbines substantially bigger offshore than onshore - There's better wind offshore - Both the previous ensure there is a higher capacity factor - There's a lot more flexibility in connecting to the grid. Grid accessibility is a huge challenge in siting onshore projects. You either need to be near an access point or conquer the immense, years long hurdles of constructing new transmission lines - The farms can have a large number of turbines which makes capital and labor more efficient
- Retric 3y ago
  > higher capacity factor It's mostly the other bits. Modern US wind farms built between 2014-2020 have a 39% capacity factor, there's only so much room to improve upon it. That said different areas have different wind patterns and electricity's value depends on the time of day not just total kWh / year.
jeffbee 3y ago
It's really an economic equation that you have to optimize for our moronic system of law. Do you want to go to war against Sea NIMBYs or Land NIMBYs? How much energy can you generate with a windmill weighed against how much it will cost to litigate against people who claim you are giving whales cancer. How much energy can you generate with solar panels and how long will it take to prevail over the people who say you are wrecking the habitat of the critically endangered San Benito Burrowing Amoeba.
KptMarchewa 3y ago
And shut down the country at 4PM in the winter.
delfinom 3y ago
In this example, Long Island being a giant island is still out of land remaining to build any large scale power plant, and the island along with NY is in dire need of more generation capacity.

WJW 3y ago

Because offshore wind can be even cheaper than onshore solar, basically. It all depends on local grid conditions of course.

philipkglass 3y ago

There are a couple of cases for offshore wind in the US: - To supply power to densely populated coastal urban areas, where there isn't a lot of free land for onshore farms nearby. - To provide some after-dark generation in areas where daytime solar power already surpasses the limits of demand. The second case gets weaker if there is room for onshore wind power in the same region, or if storage prices keep falling so that solar electricity can be used after dark. The second case gets a little stronger if a region's highest seasonal electricity demand occurs in winter instead of summer.

xen2xen1 3y ago
Offshore wind farms can also slow down hurricanes. Studies have shown that a large wind farm could reduce a storm by a whole category level. Not a small thing.
- theultdev 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - bretpiatt 3y ago
    TLDR: This is a real thing, turbines have built in protection, and there innovating on the whole system to really do this. It's a potential game changer vs. trying to build seawalls or levees. Read more, "Taming hurricanes with arrays of offshore wind turbines", https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2120 https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2120 ...and..., "Wind Turbines in Extreme Weather: Solutions for Hurricane Resiliency", https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/wind-turbines-extreme-weather-solutions-hurricane-resiliency https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/wind-turbines-extreme-w...
    - theultdev 3y ago
      I'm aware of the current built in protections we deploy for land installations. Those prototypes for hurricane prone sea installations do look promising though, especially the downwind blades. Looking forward to seeing successful test data for these blades, it's certainly not going to be easy to withstand these forces.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    How far do you think nearly-horizontal wind is going to carry a huge piece of metal? Unless you think it's not going to sink pretty quickly after it lands?
    - theultdev 3y ago
      I don't know, do you know how far it can carry them? It can carry roofs of trailer homes over miles after ripping them off, I believe it can carry wind turbine blade multiple miles. Have you never heard of massive schools of fish, including sharks, being sucked up and carried miles away onto land? I think you underestimate the power of a hurricane. Regardless, it's a reasonable concern to have, is it not? It should be proven to be safe, not the other way around. Don't assume something isn't hazardous.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > it can carry roofs of trailer homes over miles after ripping them off Yeah, across land with nothing to sink into. > Have you never heard of massive schools of fish, including sharks, being sucked up and carried miles away onto land? From a hurricane, not a tornado? I have not heard of that.
        theultdev 3y ago
        > Yeah, across land. You do know hurricanes lose power when they hit land right? > From a hurricane, not a tornado? Tornadoes do. Hurricanes do as well. Why do you think there would be any difference? Hurricanes are generally more powerful.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        Cite something. > Why do you think there would be any difference? The direction the air currents go.
        theultdev 3y ago
- bilsbie 3y ago
  Wow I’ve heard of that. Do you have further reading I could check out? That’s actually worth more than the energy generation.

pixl97 3y ago

Because NY state isn't going to be the most efficient place to put solar farms. And running distribution long distances is also expensive and inefficient.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rowls66 3y ago
NY state has plenty of room for onshore wind, just not in the places where most of the people are.

thinkcontext 3y ago

To add some more points the others have made: - You can make the turbines substantially bigger offshore than onshore - There's better wind offshore - Both the previous ensure there is a higher capacity factor - There's a lot more flexibility in connecting to the grid. Grid accessibility is a huge challenge in siting onshore projects. You either need to be near an access point or conquer the immense, years long hurdles of constructing new transmission lines - The farms can have a large number of turbines which makes capital and labor more efficient

Retric 3y ago
> higher capacity factor It's mostly the other bits. Modern US wind farms built between 2014-2020 have a 39% capacity factor, there's only so much room to improve upon it. That said different areas have different wind patterns and electricity's value depends on the time of day not just total kWh / year.

jeffbee 3y ago

It's really an economic equation that you have to optimize for our moronic system of law. Do you want to go to war against Sea NIMBYs or Land NIMBYs? How much energy can you generate with a windmill weighed against how much it will cost to litigate against people who claim you are giving whales cancer. How much energy can you generate with solar panels and how long will it take to prevail over the people who say you are wrecking the habitat of the critically endangered San Benito Burrowing Amoeba.

KptMarchewa 3y ago

And shut down the country at 4PM in the winter.

delfinom 3y ago

In this example, Long Island being a giant island is still out of land remaining to build any large scale power plant, and the island along with NY is in dire need of more generation capacity.