11 ms·

FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

48 points by tempsy 3y ago

webkike 3y ago
Can’t wait to be 75 and read the newspaper seeing he just got released
- DSingularity 3y ago
  He will get out much sooner.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    So if he's sentenced to 40 years in federal court ... (this is federal court, right? I forgot) Fed doesn't do parole. Best you can get typically is time for good behavior for like 15% reduction in length. But there's a good chance he doesn't get sentenced to 40 years, that's just what the prosecutor asks for. We dunno yet.
    - neilkk 3y ago
      The minimum for federal sentences is that you have to serve 2/3.
      - dilyevsky 3y ago
        It’s 85%
        cryptoBros2023 3y ago
        Maybe the next president will pardon him for some bitcoin.
        neilkk 3y ago
        You're right, my mistake.
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      A federal inmate can theoretically get presidential clemency. Obama granted almost 2000 clemencies. Biden, so far, about a dozen + 6500 for simple possession of MJ. Trump was in between with something over 200.
      - dmoy 3y ago
        I guess that's a relevant point. He might be able to buy a pardon or clemency.
      - rasz 3y ago
        Trump had a particular way of picking https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/trump-clemency-recipient-philip-esformes-pleads-guilty-in-medicare-fraud-case.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/trump-clemency-recipient-phi... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/19/ponzi-schemer-granted-clemency-by-trump-charged-with-fraud.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/19/ponzi-schemer-granted-clemen... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/trump-pardon-jonathan-braun-fine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/trump-pardon-... https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/trump-pardons-former-nixon-peabody-greenberg-traurig-partner https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/trump-pa... frauds, cons, ponzi schemes
- porkbeer 3y ago
  You really think he will do the whole sentance? I will be shocked if he sees more than 5.
  - jcranmer 3y ago
    Federal prison sentences don't offer a lot of opportunities for early release--you get to shave of 54 days per year of served time, or in other words, he might be able to get out 7 years early were he sentenced for 50 years. The only way he'll serve less than 5 years is if Trump is elected president and decides to pardon him because no one should go to prison merely for defrauding people out of billions of dollars.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Do you think he'll get a sentence that short, or that one of the next two presidencies will pardon him?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
COGlory 3y ago
I'm curious if anyone has any idea - how much money is actually unaccounted for? Michael Lewis's book makes it seem like the money existed, but was all over the place, and that by the time all was said and done, they were basically in the black. But that was assuming investments didn't ever grow - they still had to have lost money somehow.
- smcl 3y ago
  Wasn’t the issue that the “money” that was left was actually in the form of largely worthless cryptocurrency investments, some of which were issued by FTX themselves.
  - 8note 3y ago
    Which seems kinda silly. People willingly traded their USD for garbage that wasn't worth anything, and put their money into accounts any reasonable person would think is worthless. He was really just serving a market for people trying to put their money into valueless garbage
    - smcl 3y ago
      I dunno, all kinds of fraudsters and scammers are "serving a market" if you think about it like that. I guess it remains to be seen whether what they did was considered legal or not. Very very probably not.
- greedo 3y ago
  For a multitude of reasons, Lewis is an unreliable narrator...
  - infecto 3y ago
    Yes, leave only an accusation without supporting facts or ideas.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gafferongames 3y ago
Seem too lenient
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Yeah, like for stealing 11 million it would mean 14 to 18 day sentence... Which seems very very little for the amount.
  - amethyst 3y ago
    Justice runs on a log scale, and the base is left for individual jurisdictions or judges to decide.
sublinear 3y ago
What about Caroline Ellison, Gary Wang, and Nishad Singh? This wasn't just Sam Bankman-Fried and the rest should be rounded up for racketeering. Their plea deals were only with the Southern District of New York.
- typon 3y ago
  Why is it acceptable to let people go so lightly just for snitching? They commited similar crimes.
  - sumeno 3y ago
    So lightly as what? They haven't been sentenced yet
  - CydeWeys 3y ago
    Because they collaborated with the prosecution. Without collaboration it's entirely possible that no one would've been found guilty.
  - andrewxdiamond 3y ago
    It’s makes it harder for organizations like this to exist in the future. If you and your co-conspirators knew you were all getting the same sentence, no matter what, you’re not likely to snitch. But if the option of plea deals is ever present, you’re more likely to get whistleblowers. Any single whistleblower make the whole thing tumble.
- TillE 3y ago
  They plead guilty, which would have been the smart thing for SBF to do even if there was no deal on the table. At least he'd have avoided annoying the judge with hours of blatantly dishonest testimony.
- adventured 3y ago
  It's hard to tell what deals were cut by the Feds to get Bankman-Fried. Sometimes people get a relative slap on the wrist and it's because they provided a bunch of ammunition the government needed for its case to get the top target/s.
deadbabe 3y ago
He will deserve every year of that sentence.
com2kid 3y ago
Question here: What is the purpose of a sentence this long? I understand that for this type of crime the goal is deterrence rather than rehabilitation, but let's say we had a habit of locking up corrupt billionaires for 20 years instead of 50. I'd argue that the lost opportunity cost for people that wealthy (or really for anyone) that 20 years is as much a deterrent as 50 years, but at a lower cost to the tax payer.
- jyap 3y ago
  Don’t forget his Billionaire status came from fraudulent activities (taking other people’s money). This isn’t punishing entrepreneurs.
- throwaway74432 3y ago
  >20 years is as much a deterrent as 50 years, but at a lower cost to the tax payer. The number of wealthy people getting those kinds of sentences is basically 0, so the cost to the taxpayer is a moot point.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    but let's say we had a habit of locking up corrupt billionaires for 20 years
    - throwaway74432 3y ago
      There's only about 3000 billionaires in the world. Again, cost is a moot point.
- bigyikes 3y ago
  It’s a good question that seems to hit the same chord as the death penalty argument. I don’t hold this view, but I think the answer is: the goal is punishment, not deterrence, nor rehabilitation. People want “justice” which, in their view, can only be served via harsh punishment.
NegativeLatency 3y ago
Hard to square with the lack of consequences (for those responsible) for the 2009 financial crisis.
- melling 3y ago
  Can you be more specific about those responsible?
  - rhizome 3y ago
    Jamie Dimon should be in prison right now, for one.
    - dubcanada 3y ago
      Half of the big bank CEOS, and major wall street players should be in jail... they just have more money then Sam Bankman-Fried had, because he lost it all. If he had substantial resources outside FTC, do you think he would be in jail?
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > If he had substantial resources outside FTC, do you think he would be in jail? Yes. The brazenness of his fraud would land the most powerful Wall Street tycoon in jail. In case the rose tint is coming on, this was his balance sheet [1][2]. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/f05fe9f8-ca0a-48d5-8ef2-7a4d813af558 https://www.ft.com/content/f05fe9f8-ca0a-48d5-8ef2-7a4d813af... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-14/ftx-s-balance-sheet-was-bad https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-14/ftx-s-...
        dubcanada 3y ago
        Fair! His major issue was certainly not hiding it very well, if he hid it better that would have helped.
trhway 3y ago
Not trying to defend or anything (what I read in those news on SBF doesn't cause any sympathy for him in me), just wondering - as the crimes committed here were committed in the open over some prolonged time, why those crimes weren't stopped by the law enforcement several years/billions (and decades of prison term) before that pretty late point? Kind of like with Madoff or 2008 - everybody knows that the things aren't kosher (and the professionals and the related law enforcement even know most of the details of how bad the things really are), yet let it go until it crashes - basically it looks like the main crime in such cases is the failure/crash itself not the cheating/scamming/etc. before it.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > it looks like the main crime in such cases is the failure/crash itself not the cheating/scamming/etc. before it The stealing caused the crash.
  - trhway 3y ago
    The question is why the stealing is allowed to go for that long and massive and pretty much in the open until it results in the crash.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > question is why the stealing is allowed to go for that long and massive and pretty much in the open before the crash FTX was unregulated. The people giving Bankman-Fried never bothered to ask questions, so there was literally nobody looking over his shoulder. Until the problems became apparent, it wasn’t anyone’s concern. Madoff is more complicated, but it remains that he ran a lightly-regulated private fund. (And the banks that looked the other way paid dearly for it.)
      - trhway 3y ago
        >FTX was unregulated. The people giving Bankman-Fried They were giving money either as donation - regulated, or as payment for services and goods - regulated, or as deposits - regulated, or as investment - regulated. Probably the only way it could have been unregulated if it were as gift, which it obviously wasn't. >he ran a lightly-regulated private fund. and everybody thought that he is "lightly" (if it can be applied to tens of billions of dollars) cheating like front-running or something like this, and they let him that "light cheating" for years and tens of billions of dollars until the crash.
epivosism 3y ago
Readers may be interested in this link, which is to all the SBF sentence-related markets on manifold. Caveats: just like twitter follower counts, instagram like counts, hn upvotes, this is "play money", the mana amounts the traders bet here are numbers in a database, not real cash. Also the number of traders is fairly small. The top markets have settled on these values: 300 traders, The most likely time served is 20-30y 270 traders, he'll be sentenced to 20y+, 86% 135 traders, he'll be sentenced to 50y+, 27% https://manifold.markets/browse/sbf-trial-sentence?s=most-popular&f=all&ct=ALL https://manifold.markets/browse/sbf-trial-sentence?s=most-po...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
huytersd 3y ago
That’s silly in my opinion. I didn’t see any of the actual big wigs go to prison for 2008 but Sam is an easy target with the dual effect of vilifying cryptocurrencies.
- bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
  Could you give us a name of one or two big wigs that in your opinion should've gotten 40-50 years in prison due to 2008?
  - stalfosknight 3y ago
    All of them would be a good start.
    - ants_everywhere 3y ago
      You can't just mass imprison your enemies because they made you upset.
      - gostintheshell 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - pram 3y ago
    Richard Fuld and Henry Paulson for sure. Kerry Killinger and Christopher Cox for the encouragement of the others.
- tomoyoirl 3y ago
  Bigwigs have done many things, but most of them weren’t doing things like offering unregistered securities and lying about how they used customer funds for their own investments. Those are crimes in a way that other 2008-stuff generally wasn’t.
- charonn0 3y ago
  His crimes are closer to those of Bernie Madoff than, say, Jamie Dimon. Madoff was sentenced to 150 years.
ShamelessC 3y ago
Based on how he was acting during trial, I assume he still thinks he's somehow getting out of this.
- bhouston 3y ago
  I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.
  - highwayman47 3y ago
    That’s his act, so he doesn’t have to serve a full sentence.
  - p1mrx 3y ago
    "I reject your reality and substitute my own." I think you have to be smart to become truly nuts.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    > Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true. I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyance to the law.
    - AznHisoka 3y ago
      Yeah, I think I agree. Many many examples of people who made it or almost made it, without being smart or lucky (WeWork CEO) or in the right place at the right time or able to deceive people (ie Elizabeth Holmes)
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
tptacek 3y ago
This is predictable; he's been convicted of 2B1.1 crimes, which scale with monetary losses, which top out (in the tables) at, like, 500MM, and put you (by themselves) near the bottom of the sentencing table. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38123281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38123281
- djao 3y ago
  From the article: > The federal probation department separately recommended a 100-year sentence for Mr. Bankman-Fried, 32, effectively a life sentence. But prosecutors said in the filing that sending him to prison for the rest of his life was not warranted, despite the severity of his crime, because of his relative youth. So it looks like the prosecutors are coming in below the sentencing guidelines.
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
The Government's Sentencing Memorandum: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939.410.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... Exhibits: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.1_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.2_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.3_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.4_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.5_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.6_2.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59...
neonate 3y ago
https://archive.ph/UhIAL https://archive.ph/UhIAL
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
Works where archive.ph is blocked: https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=4350993939384&w=AhmXJ-SVjAr6lnbEvY14tc1oiQ5WTwma https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=4350993939384&w=AhmXJ-SVjA...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
The government's sentencing memorandum and exhibits, including SBF tweets and other statements by the defendant: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939.410.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.1_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.2_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.3_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.4_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.5_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.6_2.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59...
sgammon 3y ago
Good
Moore34 3y ago
[dead]

48 points by tempsy 3y ago

webkike 3y ago

Can’t wait to be 75 and read the newspaper seeing he just got released

DSingularity 3y ago
He will get out much sooner.
- dmoy 3y ago
  So if he's sentenced to 40 years in federal court ... (this is federal court, right? I forgot) Fed doesn't do parole. Best you can get typically is time for good behavior for like 15% reduction in length. But there's a good chance he doesn't get sentenced to 40 years, that's just what the prosecutor asks for. We dunno yet.
  - neilkk 3y ago
    The minimum for federal sentences is that you have to serve 2/3.
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      It’s 85%
      - cryptoBros2023 3y ago
        Maybe the next president will pardon him for some bitcoin.
      - neilkk 3y ago
        You're right, my mistake.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    A federal inmate can theoretically get presidential clemency. Obama granted almost 2000 clemencies. Biden, so far, about a dozen + 6500 for simple possession of MJ. Trump was in between with something over 200.
    - dmoy 3y ago
      I guess that's a relevant point. He might be able to buy a pardon or clemency.
    - rasz 3y ago
      Trump had a particular way of picking https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/trump-clemency-recipient-philip-esformes-pleads-guilty-in-medicare-fraud-case.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/trump-clemency-recipient-phi... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/19/ponzi-schemer-granted-clemency-by-trump-charged-with-fraud.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/19/ponzi-schemer-granted-clemen... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/trump-pardon-jonathan-braun-fine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/trump-pardon-... https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/trump-pardons-former-nixon-peabody-greenberg-traurig-partner https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/trump-pa... frauds, cons, ponzi schemes
porkbeer 3y ago
You really think he will do the whole sentance? I will be shocked if he sees more than 5.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  Federal prison sentences don't offer a lot of opportunities for early release--you get to shave of 54 days per year of served time, or in other words, he might be able to get out 7 years early were he sentenced for 50 years. The only way he'll serve less than 5 years is if Trump is elected president and decides to pardon him because no one should go to prison merely for defrauding people out of billions of dollars.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Do you think he'll get a sentence that short, or that one of the next two presidencies will pardon him?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

COGlory 3y ago

I'm curious if anyone has any idea - how much money is actually unaccounted for? Michael Lewis's book makes it seem like the money existed, but was all over the place, and that by the time all was said and done, they were basically in the black. But that was assuming investments didn't ever grow - they still had to have lost money somehow.

smcl 3y ago
Wasn’t the issue that the “money” that was left was actually in the form of largely worthless cryptocurrency investments, some of which were issued by FTX themselves.
- 8note 3y ago
  Which seems kinda silly. People willingly traded their USD for garbage that wasn't worth anything, and put their money into accounts any reasonable person would think is worthless. He was really just serving a market for people trying to put their money into valueless garbage
  - smcl 3y ago
    I dunno, all kinds of fraudsters and scammers are "serving a market" if you think about it like that. I guess it remains to be seen whether what they did was considered legal or not. Very very probably not.
greedo 3y ago
For a multitude of reasons, Lewis is an unreliable narrator...
- infecto 3y ago
  Yes, leave only an accusation without supporting facts or ideas.
  - arcticbull 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gafferongames 3y ago

Seem too lenient

Ekaros 3y ago
Yeah, like for stealing 11 million it would mean 14 to 18 day sentence... Which seems very very little for the amount.
- amethyst 3y ago
  Justice runs on a log scale, and the base is left for individual jurisdictions or judges to decide.

sublinear 3y ago

What about Caroline Ellison, Gary Wang, and Nishad Singh? This wasn't just Sam Bankman-Fried and the rest should be rounded up for racketeering. Their plea deals were only with the Southern District of New York.

typon 3y ago
Why is it acceptable to let people go so lightly just for snitching? They commited similar crimes.
- sumeno 3y ago
  So lightly as what? They haven't been sentenced yet
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  Because they collaborated with the prosecution. Without collaboration it's entirely possible that no one would've been found guilty.
- andrewxdiamond 3y ago
  It’s makes it harder for organizations like this to exist in the future. If you and your co-conspirators knew you were all getting the same sentence, no matter what, you’re not likely to snitch. But if the option of plea deals is ever present, you’re more likely to get whistleblowers. Any single whistleblower make the whole thing tumble.
TillE 3y ago
They plead guilty, which would have been the smart thing for SBF to do even if there was no deal on the table. At least he'd have avoided annoying the judge with hours of blatantly dishonest testimony.
adventured 3y ago
It's hard to tell what deals were cut by the Feds to get Bankman-Fried. Sometimes people get a relative slap on the wrist and it's because they provided a bunch of ammunition the government needed for its case to get the top target/s.

deadbabe 3y ago

He will deserve every year of that sentence.

com2kid 3y ago

Question here: What is the purpose of a sentence this long? I understand that for this type of crime the goal is deterrence rather than rehabilitation, but let's say we had a habit of locking up corrupt billionaires for 20 years instead of 50. I'd argue that the lost opportunity cost for people that wealthy (or really for anyone) that 20 years is as much a deterrent as 50 years, but at a lower cost to the tax payer.

jyap 3y ago
Don’t forget his Billionaire status came from fraudulent activities (taking other people’s money). This isn’t punishing entrepreneurs.
throwaway74432 3y ago
>20 years is as much a deterrent as 50 years, but at a lower cost to the tax payer. The number of wealthy people getting those kinds of sentences is basically 0, so the cost to the taxpayer is a moot point.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  but let's say we had a habit of locking up corrupt billionaires for 20 years
  - throwaway74432 3y ago
    There's only about 3000 billionaires in the world. Again, cost is a moot point.
bigyikes 3y ago
It’s a good question that seems to hit the same chord as the death penalty argument. I don’t hold this view, but I think the answer is: the goal is punishment, not deterrence, nor rehabilitation. People want “justice” which, in their view, can only be served via harsh punishment.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

Hard to square with the lack of consequences (for those responsible) for the 2009 financial crisis.

melling 3y ago
Can you be more specific about those responsible?
- rhizome 3y ago
  Jamie Dimon should be in prison right now, for one.
  - dubcanada 3y ago
    Half of the big bank CEOS, and major wall street players should be in jail... they just have more money then Sam Bankman-Fried had, because he lost it all. If he had substantial resources outside FTC, do you think he would be in jail?
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > If he had substantial resources outside FTC, do you think he would be in jail? Yes. The brazenness of his fraud would land the most powerful Wall Street tycoon in jail. In case the rose tint is coming on, this was his balance sheet [1][2]. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/f05fe9f8-ca0a-48d5-8ef2-7a4d813af558 https://www.ft.com/content/f05fe9f8-ca0a-48d5-8ef2-7a4d813af... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-14/ftx-s-balance-sheet-was-bad https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-14/ftx-s-...
      - dubcanada 3y ago
        Fair! His major issue was certainly not hiding it very well, if he hid it better that would have helped.

trhway 3y ago

Not trying to defend or anything (what I read in those news on SBF doesn't cause any sympathy for him in me), just wondering - as the crimes committed here were committed in the open over some prolonged time, why those crimes weren't stopped by the law enforcement several years/billions (and decades of prison term) before that pretty late point? Kind of like with Madoff or 2008 - everybody knows that the things aren't kosher (and the professionals and the related law enforcement even know most of the details of how bad the things really are), yet let it go until it crashes - basically it looks like the main crime in such cases is the failure/crash itself not the cheating/scamming/etc. before it.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> it looks like the main crime in such cases is the failure/crash itself not the cheating/scamming/etc. before it The stealing caused the crash.
- trhway 3y ago
  The question is why the stealing is allowed to go for that long and massive and pretty much in the open until it results in the crash.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > question is why the stealing is allowed to go for that long and massive and pretty much in the open before the crash FTX was unregulated. The people giving Bankman-Fried never bothered to ask questions, so there was literally nobody looking over his shoulder. Until the problems became apparent, it wasn’t anyone’s concern. Madoff is more complicated, but it remains that he ran a lightly-regulated private fund. (And the banks that looked the other way paid dearly for it.)
    - trhway 3y ago
      >FTX was unregulated. The people giving Bankman-Fried They were giving money either as donation - regulated, or as payment for services and goods - regulated, or as deposits - regulated, or as investment - regulated. Probably the only way it could have been unregulated if it were as gift, which it obviously wasn't. >he ran a lightly-regulated private fund. and everybody thought that he is "lightly" (if it can be applied to tens of billions of dollars) cheating like front-running or something like this, and they let him that "light cheating" for years and tens of billions of dollars until the crash.

epivosism 3y ago

Readers may be interested in this link, which is to all the SBF sentence-related markets on manifold. Caveats: just like twitter follower counts, instagram like counts, hn upvotes, this is "play money", the mana amounts the traders bet here are numbers in a database, not real cash. Also the number of traders is fairly small. The top markets have settled on these values: 300 traders, The most likely time served is 20-30y 270 traders, he'll be sentenced to 20y+, 86% 135 traders, he'll be sentenced to 50y+, 27% https://manifold.markets/browse/sbf-trial-sentence?s=most-popular&f=all&ct=ALL https://manifold.markets/browse/sbf-trial-sentence?s=most-po...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

huytersd 3y ago

That’s silly in my opinion. I didn’t see any of the actual big wigs go to prison for 2008 but Sam is an easy target with the dual effect of vilifying cryptocurrencies.

bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
Could you give us a name of one or two big wigs that in your opinion should've gotten 40-50 years in prison due to 2008?
- stalfosknight 3y ago
  All of them would be a good start.
  - ants_everywhere 3y ago
    You can't just mass imprison your enemies because they made you upset.
    - gostintheshell 3y ago
      [flagged]
- pram 3y ago
  Richard Fuld and Henry Paulson for sure. Kerry Killinger and Christopher Cox for the encouragement of the others.
tomoyoirl 3y ago
Bigwigs have done many things, but most of them weren’t doing things like offering unregistered securities and lying about how they used customer funds for their own investments. Those are crimes in a way that other 2008-stuff generally wasn’t.
charonn0 3y ago
His crimes are closer to those of Bernie Madoff than, say, Jamie Dimon. Madoff was sentenced to 150 years.

ShamelessC 3y ago

Based on how he was acting during trial, I assume he still thinks he's somehow getting out of this.

bhouston 3y ago
I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.
- highwayman47 3y ago
  That’s his act, so he doesn’t have to serve a full sentence.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  "I reject your reality and substitute my own." I think you have to be smart to become truly nuts.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  > Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true. I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyance to the law.
  - AznHisoka 3y ago
    Yeah, I think I agree. Many many examples of people who made it or almost made it, without being smart or lucky (WeWork CEO) or in the right place at the right time or able to deceive people (ie Elizabeth Holmes)
  - sidewndr46 3y ago

tptacek 3y ago

This is predictable; he's been convicted of 2B1.1 crimes, which scale with monetary losses, which top out (in the tables) at, like, 500MM, and put you (by themselves) near the bottom of the sentencing table. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38123281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38123281

djao 3y ago
From the article: > The federal probation department separately recommended a 100-year sentence for Mr. Bankman-Fried, 32, effectively a life sentence. But prosecutors said in the filing that sending him to prison for the rest of his life was not warranted, despite the severity of his crime, because of his relative youth. So it looks like the prosecutors are coming in below the sentencing guidelines.

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

The Government's Sentencing Memorandum: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939.410.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... Exhibits: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.1_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.2_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.3_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.4_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.5_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.6_2.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59...

neonate 3y ago

https://archive.ph/UhIAL https://archive.ph/UhIAL

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

Works where archive.ph is blocked: https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=4350993939384&w=AhmXJ-SVjAr6lnbEvY14tc1oiQ5WTwma https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=4350993939384&w=AhmXJ-SVjA...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

The government's sentencing memorandum and exhibits, including SBF tweets and other statements by the defendant: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939.410.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.1_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.2_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.3_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.4_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.5_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940/gov.uscourts.nysd.590940.410.6_2.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59...

sgammon 3y ago

Good

Moore34 3y ago

[dead]