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Oh so in Russia its jumping out a window and in the USA its some random method of suicide? Why not be specific, and consistent, like Russia?
by ixaxaar 3y ago
Oh so in Russia its jumping out a window and in the USA its some random method of suicide?
Why not be specific, and consistent, like Russia?
- wordhydrogen 3y agoJust speculating here but isn’t jumping out a window in Russia usually an implication it was ordered by the Russian state (ex: FSB) while in the US a framed suicides are assumed to be done by numerous non-associated actors. So in one place a single entity is responsible and in another it’s multiple entities. It doesn’t seem surprising to me that there would be an affinity towards a particular method within entities.
- dijit 3y agothat's what the parent is saying.
- lostlogin 3y ago> jumping out a window Or a poisoning with a ludicrously rare poison, a strange car crash, a plane falling out the sky, dying at a gulag when you were fine a few days earlier etc etc. It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line.
- card_zero 3y agoTechnically I don't think Navalny was fine a few days earlier, I understood that he had ongoing poor health due to, uh, being previously poisoned.
- tim333 3y agoHere's video of him the day before looking not exactly on deaths door https://youtu.be/pUwOYeei5MU https://youtu.be/pUwOYeei5MU
- pydry 3y ago>It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line. Very much like America, apparently. The part where plenty of people express skepticism that theses death were really suspicious seems to be similar too.
- whacko_quacko 3y ago> Very much like America, apparently. No. America isn't in the habit of regularily murdering dissidents
- lostlogin 3y agoIs anyone refuting this? It’s hardly a wild claim.
- whacko_quacko 3y agoDid you read the parent?
- pydry 3y agoDid you read the title of this thread?
- lostlogin 3y agoA convenient death for Boeing/USA versus a century of documented political assassinations. Russia’s state killings are vast, millions? The two are not equal.
- pydry 3y ago>Russia’s state killings are vast, millions? If you go far enough back in time, sure. Then again, if you go far enough back in time (not that long, truth be told), the US committed genocide against the Native Americans.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago> a plane falling out the sky > It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line. This one seems less like "it's a very unsafe place" and more like Prigozhin was trying to be killed. He went into open armed rebellion and negotiated a deal where he was exiled to Belarus. Then he went back to Russia, where he experienced a fatal plane crash. He would have to have been a total idiot not to see that coming.† What happened? † My favorite story in this general vein is what happened with the Mitanni king Tushratta, whose brother the king was killed by a usurper when Tushratta was young. Tushratta inherited the throne, and the usurper, Tuhi, held power as regent until Tushratta came of age. At which point Tushratta had Tuhi and his coconspirators executed. This was 3400 years ago, but somehow I suspect that even then this wouldn't have been hard to predict.
- lostlogin 3y ago> He would have to have been a total idiot not to see that coming The confusing bit for me is why did it go on for so long? It’s one thing to kill him, but seemingly letting him back into Putin’s circle before killing him is surprising. I hope to hear the story one day.
- threatripper 3y agoOne might deduce a number of factions offering those services from clustering the methods used.
- ZoomerCretin 3y agoWe don't know that this was the result of a state actor. It could also have been someone who bought a ton of Boeing calls before the safety scandals.
- pavlov 3y ago> “It could also have been someone who bought a ton of Boeing calls” Now I’m imagining a show set in Greenwich, Connecticut, where a gentle white-haired family man trades options during the day and manages assassinations after the kids go to bed. “The Americans” meets “The Big Short”?
- DonHopkins 3y agoI hope they cast esteemed character actress and fugitive from the law Margo Martindale as the hitwoman! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvyzv-G5q3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvyzv-G5q3w
- jiggawatts 3y agoI would binge watch that.
- ImHereToVote 3y ago[flagged]
- snickerer 3y agoBecause in Russia it is an open message to the public 'don't mess with the KGB or we kill you and maybe your children'. Everybody knows and understands who is the sender and the message. Classic mafia move of intimidation. It is a message to the living. In the Western World the secret services kill to silence people, not to broadcast messages to the public. Quite the opposite PR strategy.
- medo-bear 3y agoExactly. People need to understand that the murding methods in the West are just so much more civilised and polite, otherwise they just might commit suicide
- eggdaft 3y agoI think also in the west you can’t be as blatant. There are checks and balances. Every murder invites journalistic investigation, so plausible deniability is important should things get out of hand.
- roenxi 3y agoAnd when powerful people want to show off their power it tends to be less fatal and more drag-through-the-mud style tactics. Like what happened to Julian Assange. Killing him was an option on the table as far as I recall, but it wasn't what they ended up doing. Although that being said, I wouldn't rule this out as being organised by Boeing's management or a major shareholder or something. It is a company in the military-industrial complex.
- pydry 3y agoAssange talked about his dead man's switch previously. If it weren't for that the powers that be probably would have Putined him.
- generic92034 3y agoIs that plausible, though? Why would he not have used that leverage to prevent captivity?
- DonHopkins 3y agoNot random. In Russia, they blame it on an open window in a tall building. In America they blame it on a black guy with a gun. Man in Sioux Falls, South Dakota shoots himself in penis and tries to blame black guy: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/man-shoots-himself-in-penis-and-tries-to-blame-black-guy-a6671031.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/man-shoots... ‘We failed the city of Boston’: how a racist manhunt led to chaos in 1989: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/dec/07/we-failed-the-city-of-boston-how-a-racist-manhunt-led-to-chaos-in-1989 https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/dec/07/we-fail... Blake Masters blames Black people for gun violence. But remember, he's no racist: https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2022/06/07/blake-masters-blames-gun-violence-not-guns-but-black-people/7545707001/ https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2...
- littlestymaar 3y agoWhile racism is indeed a very acute issue in the US, I don't see what it has to do with anything in this thread…
- fragmede 3y agosaying "a black man did it" is being used in America as the same sort of explanation for a death as "fell out of an apartment window"in Russia. its racist as hell, but it's a plausible cover story over what really happened.
- orwin 3y agoDGSE (French secret service) really like to drown people, so avoid cities with canals and/or river if you feel you can be a target :)
- littlestymaar 3y agoInteresting, I had never heard of that before. Do you have references that I could read on the topic?
- orwin 3y agoIt's tongue in cheek, we kill in many different ways. Drowning related however, the most known is this one (even got a wiki page, so it's really well known!) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Boulin But Choukri Ghanem also managed to drown himself in Vienna. A related death was Albichari, a 37 yo dying of diabetes, and 6 years later, Bechir Saleh assassination attempt by a commando (with his bodyguard crew saving him), so the DGSE clearly have multiple ways of doing business.
- karambahh 3y agoSmall nitpick, if (which is very likely to me but unfortunately hasn't been proven) Robert Boulin has been murdered, it's definitely not by the DGSE or it predecessor, as they operate outside of France. If you agree is that it's not a suicide, opinions differ on whether it's government team that did it or the "SAC", a paramilitary group linked to the then ruling party, not an official secret service
- orwin 3y agoTrue, true, it probably wasn't secret services (interestingly, they were busy preparing an operation against Khadafi in Lybia around that time, that they did not execute according to Pierre Marion, ex DGSE director), and Mitterand wasn't keen on assassinations before 81, so i don't think it was on his orders, weirdly. But i've read that recently "https://www.amazon.fr/tueurs-R%C3%A9publique-Assassinats-op%C3%A9rations-sp%C3%A9ciales/dp/2290372846 https://www.amazon.fr/tueurs-R%C3%A9publique-Assassinats-op%..." and now i have to jump in when people talk about political assassination, even though i know almost nothing about the subject, and everything i know is so thin it should be disregarded anyway. As the memory fade, i will stop doing that. Sorry :/
- tarruda 3y agoWith Yevgeny Prigozhin, the method was ingestion of surface-to-air missile: https://babylonbee.com/news/leader-of-failed-russian-uprising-dead-after-accidental-ingestion-of-surface-to-air-missile https://babylonbee.com/news/leader-of-failed-russian-uprisin...
- lupusreal 3y agoGive the alternative methods known to be used by the Russian government, Prigo's assassination almost seems like a sort of royal treatment.
- K0balt 3y agoEver since my friend’s father (a police officer reviled for lacking the requisite appetite for corruption) “committed suicide” I’ve been a little more than a little skeptical about convenient suicides. I was one of the first on the scene. The passenger window of his car was shattered, all of the glass on the inside of the car. No blood on the glass. The car was still in drive and had driven itself off the road. A gun was found on the floor under the seat, a gun that was unknown to family members. Ruled a suicide and multiple attempts to open an investigation all the way up to the federal level were ignored, and his son received numerous, documented death threats warning him to stop perusing an investigation. The USA is just another banana republic, only with a higher price of admission to the table. I think most people know that these kind of “suicides” or “accidental falls” from hotel balconies are not suicides, yet we all know we are powerless to root out this level of imbedded corruption. What most people fail to understand is that it isn’t so much the work of corrupt politicians or shadowy crime bosses, but more often is rooted in the C-Suite. Since criminal and sociopathic characteristics are often rewarded at the executive level , it should be no surprise that crime and corporate governance are frequently intermingled.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]