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Weak rules allow ultra-processed foods like Lunchables on school menus (2023)
- SoftTalker 3y agoLunchables (if the real brand) seem like they would be pretty expensive. But ultra-processed food is nothing new for school lunches, this doesn't really seem like news.
- colechristensen 3y agoI’m still curious to know what was in the “beef” hamburger patty they served.
- dieselgate 3y agoIf I were to assume it would be a soy based product - that’s what Taco Bell use/d in their “meat” filling at roughly 50/50 ratios iirc
- GaryNumanVevo 3y agoNo no, nothing close to 50/50. They've also never used soy protein as filler. They have a soy isolate (soy lecithin oil) which is used as an emulsifier. The official recipe only has "88% beef" because the other 12% is a light sauce with corn starch and cellulose thickeners. [1] I regularly make Taco Bell style taco fillings with 85% lean USDA ground beef and a mix of wheat and oat flour with seasoning for the sauce. [1] - https://amp.firstwefeast.com/eat/2014/05/tacobell-beef-ingredients-revealed https://amp.firstwefeast.com/eat/2014/05/tacobell-beef-ingre...
- feverzsj 3y agoSo, it's just some sandwich biscuits. And you have to assemble them yourself, which is probably the only good part in it.
- 48864w6ui 3y agoAs we recall, schooling in the US is local, which effectively means (via housing premium) "free to play; buy the buffs".
- Phiwise_ 3y agoVouchers when?
- matthewbunge 3y agoI went to a fairly well off public high school for my area and our food was horrific. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who went to a public high school in the US in the last 15 years where the food wasn't horrible, nutrition wise or taste wise.
- nebula8804 3y agoIt does not always play out like that. For example here is a scene from Supersize Me talking about a school for remedial trouble making kids serving nutritional full bodied meals: [1]:https://youtu.be/tyOQTzl2DcU?t=3316 https://youtu.be/tyOQTzl2DcU?t=3316 That movie is 20 years old at this point. There have been a lot more efforts to improve things across the country but its been hit and miss. Naturally the blue states tend to care more about this stuff but even they are not having uniform results.
- cat_plus_plus 3y agoYeah, because that's what regular people like to eat. What, never had crackers with ham and cheese? Now, if you are going to serve gourmet meals in schools, go right ahead, I heard it's a thing in France. But don't delude yourself into thinking 8 year olds are going to eat boiled broccoli and whatever unappetizing thing you conjure up for protein. It's not "weak rules", it's no money and cultural attitudes. Either fix these, or let kids at least enjoy their lunch.
- Scoundreller 3y agoFrance has strong rules here: if the kid wants to eat their own lunch, they have to do it offsite. Teens will do that but not imagining many parents picking up their 8 y.o. daily to do so. They (probably) put more money into it and have the cultural attitudes to do all of the above.
- tintor 3y agoWhy offsite?
- guappa 3y agoSo they learn to eat healthy stuff. Which is absolutely a learnt skill.
- williamdclt 3y agoI’m not sure (I’m French) but I think it’s something like “we need the tables for the kids who eat at the canteen, and we can’t let kids eat anywhere in the school for messiness reasons”. Meal prices are quite competitive, kids usually eat at the canteen or at home, they don’t usually bring their own food
- fransje26 3y agoHealth and safety. The food served at the canteens needs to be traceable, to avoid/mitigate food poisoning related issues. Once you start bringing external food into the system, you can no longer guarantee the safety of the other canteen goers, even if, theoretically, they will not be sharing their meals.
- swatcoder 3y agoIt might be a good cause to fight over, but not a new one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- faeriechangling 3y agoIt's truly amazing how this isn't a higher priority issue in America. Americans are all dying prematurely. The food industry is slaughtering them.
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- mikeodds 3y agoA McDonald’s in France costs twice as much where a coffee costs less than half as much. You also don’t need to use a napkin to eat the burger in one of those places.
- davidd_1004 3y agoMcDonalds burgers are 100% beef in the US
- mikeodds 3y agoI’ve also read this and I can’t explain why in the US it’s like a completely different meal compared to anywhere outside that I’ve tried it.
- davidd_1004 3y agoMeat could be higher quality from wherever they are sourcing it.
- drooopy 3y agoDoes that 100% mean that they've sourced their meat from the entirety of the cow's body? Because they sure taste like it.
- gruez 3y agoMcdonalds claims their patties are "100% beef", and according to the CFR "beef" means "flesh of cattle". https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/faq/burgers.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/faq/burgers.html https://casetext.com/regulation/code-of-federal-regulations/title-7-agriculture/subtitle-b-regulations-of-the-department-of-agriculture/chapter-xi-agricultural-marketing-service-marketing-agreements-and-orders-miscellaneous-commodities-department-of-agriculture/part-1260-beef-promotion-and-research/subpart-a-beef-promotion-and-research-order/definitions/section-1260119-beef https://casetext.com/regulation/code-of-federal-regulations/...
- Pokerface777 3y ago[dead]
- kombookcha 3y agoThere was an older thread from /fit/ in which a guy claimed to be living partially on "monkey biscuits" formulated to feed great apes. If you believe him, he'd soften them with water and dip them in hot sauce. Supposedly an extremely inexpensive protein source and the logic went that if silverbacks can get swole while living on it, other great apes like humans should also be able to.
- Wolfenstein98k 3y agoDaily reminder that there is no evidence that the processing of food makes it harmful. It may remove nutrients or make foods less "healthful", but there's no evidence that grinding oats into oat flour makes them suddenly harmful, or that adding that flour to a meat product makes it harmful.
- rightbyte 3y agoSome processed food does mess your stomach up. Like, freeze dried eat-in-the-forest bags of food. There has to be some sort of concern at some point? I mean, the stomach might get a too easy job with the food almost predigested? But mainly, "processed food" is probably just an indirect measure of a bad diet, lots of sugar etc
- Wolfenstein98k 3y agoIt is probably true that eating lots of processed food robs your body of the chance to digest unprocessed foods via displacement. But again, that doesn't mean processing does harm - it's just your responsibility to include "whole" foods for maximum healthfulness.
- BrandoElFollito 3y agoI think it depends on the definition of "harmful". Certainly grinding oats into oats flour does not make them dangerous for the body just because of the grinding process. But it is probably that when they are ground, you use more of X to keep them together, and X is not good for the body. Not a poison but something that makes your body suffer when eaten in too much quantity (say, sugar). So all in all the processed food brings to your body stuff that it should not in such quantities. This is like a beer once in a while, which is fine, but two daily will eventually make you sick.
- floor2 3y agoDaily reminder that the term "ultraprocessed food" is a label meant to encompass the complex set of unhealthy things in modern, mass produced food products and not literally about "amount of processing". I can't never tell if comments like this are genuine confusion from overly-literal people with poor language skills, trolls, FUD from manufacturers or what. Food is complex. A healthy diet is going to be a multi-variable equation including different fats (omega-3, omega-6, omega-9, etc), proteins (9 different essential amino acids needed in varying quantities), carbohydrates (with varying insulin and other metabolic impact by chain length), vitamins, minerals, fiber (soluble & insoluble). As well as uniquely modern things like artificial colors, emulsifiers, anti-caking agents, anti-microbial preservatives, etc. And then overall calories tailored to an individuals size and level of activity. It's too many variables to include detailed, nuanced descriptions, so we need to use terms like "ultraprocessed" as a shorthand approximation to capture the diverse set of food products which cause obesity, diabetes, GI issues, cognitive issues, etc.
- ajb 3y ago"ultra processed food" is the perfect grifter slogan: * There's a grain of truth in it. Chemically designing food gives the opportunity to reduce costs by making it less healthy, and food producers should be held to account. We need better ways to quantify and assure the health value of food products. However- * The term "UPF" is vague, making it not useful for the individual. This provides great opportunities for grifters to a) publish scary clickbait and b) set themselves up as an authority on what food or is not UPF * It provides the perfect opportunity for status signalling, as wealthier people can invest money or time in artisanally produced or prepared food. * It provides an opportunity for low efficiency producers to sell food as "less processed" at a high markup, irrespective of whether it is more healthy The population is too large to rely on food produced or prepared artisanally, unless possibly they prepare it themselves out of raw ingredients. But giving up on economic specialism in the area of food preparation would be huge cost on society. Do we really believe that our economic system is incapable of enforcing the evaluation and optimization of the health value of food products? That would be a really basic failure.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoa rational and somewhat nuanced opinion. that's not gonna sell on social media, lol. but I agree. unless you're growing it yourself chances are all food is "processed", and while ultra processed foods is a nebulous title, it is also clear that there is definitely that some foods are debatably "meat" or "grain". a lot of those Lunchables salamis, for example, have more in common with McDonald's chicken nuggets -- pink goo made from scraps, feet, necks, anuses, etc. -- that's shaped into something that resembles food, and then fried. on the other hand, that is real proteins we're throwing out -- an animal died for this -- and we should use every last scrap, esp. when living in a world where people still starve.
- faeriechangling 3y agoNever got the squeamishness over using meat scraps. The problem with those products isn’t the anuses it’s the nitrates and to a lesser extent the saturated fat content.
- em500 3y agoI grew up in the Netherlands, where primary schools (age 4-12) do not have any lunch facilities at all, i.e. no kitchens, canteens or lunch areas. School lunch works as follows: - Parents pack lunch in a box for their children, typically 2 to 4 sandwiches with cheese/ham/peanut butter/chocolate paste, a piece of fruit and some water, though occasionally some lucky kid brings some reheated pasta, wraps or sushi. - Lunch is eaten at the classroom table, with one or two externally hired supervisors (so that teachers get an afternoon break). Parents pay a contribution of €2-€3 per lunch for the supervision (not for food), with subsidies for low income households. Note that the price of the food that the parents are packing (sandwiches and fruit) is often less than the price of supervision. - The alternative is to go home for lunch. In recent decades this is uncommon for the younger children (not many stay-at-home parents), but starting around age 10 more children can manage this. (Average distance to primary school is less than 1km, so most kids can walk or cycle on their own.) I only learned much later in life that even in Europe this model is a bit of an outlier, and that most other countries have more extensive lunch facilities in schools. Elsewhere in Europe there is debate to what extent school lunches should be universally subsidized[1]. In the Netherlands there are no school lunches to subsidize in the first place. [1] https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/09/04/school-meals-in-europe-which-countries-provide-free-food-for-students https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/09/04/school-meals-in...
- qgin 3y agoSo primary school in effect costs €3 a day?
- em500 3y agoNo, the lunchtime supervision cost €2-€3 a day in schools where school attendance during lunch hour is not compulsory. Parents can make other choices. They can have kids lunch at home or choose a school where attendance during lunch is compulsory (these don't charge the parents, but lunch time is shorter, and the school ends earlier).
- globular-toast 3y agoLunchables were a new thing when I was in school about 25 years a go. A lot of other kids seemed to have them and I was so envious. When I grew up and could buy my own food I just forgot about them. They're kiddie things and I just didn't want them any more. I guess I always assumed they weren't good for you but didn't think about it much. About a year ago I saw one in a supermarket and curiosity got the better of me. What was I missing out on? I was expecting it to be bad but was still shocked. The crackers are like sweet biscuits. What's with that? It's the same as McDonalds. Sweet everything. The other bits are just coloured protein-style matter. But yet it appeals to children. A marketing department has sat together and designed something of no value except to be craved by children. And this is still available 25 years later?! Food addiction is the cause of both obesity and diabetes type 2. Nobody wants to be fat and they know what causes it, but they can't stop eating. It's the textbook definition of addiction. And we're getting kids hooked, in their school lunch, no less. You might as well put some cigarettes in there too then wonder why everyone is addicted to cigarettes. It seems completely insane to me. It makes me realise cigarettes probably didn't go away due to any kind public health campaign. They just went out of fashion. I can't believe they could make cigarettes go away but can't even get junk food out of schools.
- nmeagent 3y ago> this is still available 25 years later?! It's a bit worse than that -- they were introduced in 1988-89, so they're still available 35 years later. I remember them from grade school at the time and they were (tasty) garbage even then.
- nebula8804 3y agoIts possibly also the good memories created during the consumption of this stuff. I grew up on Lunchables and find myself picking it up once in a blue moon. Its not great but its those memories.
- denton-scratch 3y agoWhat is "ultra-processed"? Last night I cooked Beef Stroganoff from scratch (well, I used supermarket soured cream, so not completely from scratch). I added salt, flavourings (herbs, mustard, brandy), and fat (butter). As far as I can tell, that kind of home cooking matches the definition of "ultra-processed". I believe a slice of bread can count as ultra-processed. It's really not a useful designation, and I think it's unfortunate that the UN has adopted it as a battle-cry.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- MikusR 3y agoBased on that nova definition, handmade extruded pasta colored with beet juice is an ultra processed food.
- snakeyjake 3y agoIt is not. Both pasta and beet juice are group 1 unprocessed foods. Combining group 1 foods does not create a group 4 food. WHERE IS ALL OF THIS COMING FROM? Is there some kind of food lobby front organization flooding social media with "your freshly baked bread is ultraprocessed according to GUBMINT NERDS" in order to defang the word? Here is a good definition of ultra-processed: >Ultra-processed foods are industrial formulations made entirely or mostly from substances extracted from foods (oils, fats, sugar, starch, and proteins), derived from food constituents (hydrogenated fats and modified starch), or synthesized in laboratories from food substrates or other organic sources (flavor enhancers, colors, and several food additives used to make the product hyper-palatable). Manufacturing techniques include extrusion, moulding and preprocessing by frying. Beverages may be ultra-processed. Group 1 foods are a small proportion of, or are even absent from, ultra-processed products.
- MikusR 3y agoFrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification "The manufacturing processes for ultra-processed foods typically involve techniques such as extrusion" "along with the addition of various cosmetic additives, including those for ... colour."