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Although the furniture quality is excellent, I worry about supporting child labor when doing business with the Amish. They pull their kids out of school after g

Although the furniture quality is excellent, I worry about supporting child labor when doing business with the Amish. They pull their kids out of school after grade 8 to put them to work. I've also heard various things regarding the commonality of abusive practices within their religion. Trade-offs for everything!

inglor_cz 3y ago
"supporting child labor" From their point of view, the modern society may be needlessly infantilizing people who are halfway to adulthood. We even treat university students like kids, hence all the obsession with micromanaging their campus experience.
- nozzlegear 3y ago
  Child labor seems a bit more serious a concern.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- illiac786 3y ago
  There's a big range between 8 year old and average first year university student...
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    " after grade 8 " (the OPs concern) is more like 15 y.o., right?
    - illiac786 3y ago
      Oops, misread.
    - schneems 3y ago
      Even at 15 years old you’re still a long way away from having a fully developed pre-frontal cortex. We used to think kids were like little adults, then we learned a bit about how the brain develops and how wildly wrong that mental model was.
      - Tade0 3y ago
        Looking at the level of independence I and my peers handled at this age vs what is the norm now we might have overdone it.
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        I mean, to some extend, but I don’t necessarily think that working is bad for a 13 year old. If they can work in a supermarket to earn some side income they can work anywhere (under limited guidance).
      - treflop 3y ago
        Isn’t that just the average though? I’ve met plenty of wickedly level-headed 15 year olds and a whole lot of irresponsible 30 year olds. The variation is such to an extreme level too.
        tasuki 3y ago
        This has been my experience too!
      - inglor_cz 3y ago
        When I was 15, my brain was definitely pubescent and far from fully developed. But I was able to make some money by fixing computers or translating stuff from English to Czech anyway. There was no exploitation in those labor relations just because I was young. I am not manually skilled, but I can definitely see someone at 15 making a nice chair or a table instead. I don't think that 15 y.o.s should be treated as fully adult, some limitations on their work are perfectly OK (no ardous work, no work underground etc.). But barring them from working altogether will probably slow their development down. Not everything can be learnt from books or models, some real-world practice, including the most basic elements of interaction with customers/employers, is necessary.
    - gilfoy 3y ago
      yes my furniture is crafted exclusively by highly skilled 13 year olds.
      - imp0cat 3y ago
        Furniture AND iPhones ;)
    - graemep 3y ago
      So not far off compulsory school age in the UK, which is approximately 16. We do not get accused of child labour. Until recently you could work once you left school. Now you cannot do a full time job until you are 18, but can become an apprentice (so you get some training as well as working). There is nothing to stop you doing nothing. The requirement to not work until you are 18 has not been particularly beneficial. Brought to you (IIRC) by the same government that massively expanded the higher education system (a huge increase in the proportion of people going to university) for no real benefit.
tengbretson 3y ago
> They pull their kids out of school after grade 8 This is inaccurate. Their schooling is complete after grade 8.
- SauciestGNU 3y ago
  Like hell it is. What they want their kids learning is irrelevant, it's a travesty of "religious freedom" that we don't require this cult to educate their children to the same uniform standard as every other person in our society.
  - throwaway892238 3y ago
    I dropped out of school in 9th grade. I make $200K a year. A friend of mine has a college degree and has been unemployed for a year. There is no uniform standard of education in the US. Kids in the South are being taught that evolution is on par with intelligent design. Poor black kids in Baltimore have on average a 3rd grade reading level in high school, while rich kids a few counties away are taught when to use a backdoor roth ira. Don't even mention "no child left behind". Maybe let's calm down a bit with the judgement.
    - boringg 3y ago
      "few counties away are taught when to use a backdoor roth ira" What are you on about? Nobody is talking about a back door roth IRA in high school.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - tengbretson 3y ago
    They are not "people in your society". They have their own society and you are not a member.

inglor_cz 3y ago

"supporting child labor" From their point of view, the modern society may be needlessly infantilizing people who are halfway to adulthood. We even treat university students like kids, hence all the obsession with micromanaging their campus experience.

nozzlegear 3y ago
Child labor seems a bit more serious a concern.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
illiac786 3y ago
There's a big range between 8 year old and average first year university student...
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  " after grade 8 " (the OPs concern) is more like 15 y.o., right?
  - illiac786 3y ago
    Oops, misread.
  - schneems 3y ago
    Even at 15 years old you’re still a long way away from having a fully developed pre-frontal cortex. We used to think kids were like little adults, then we learned a bit about how the brain develops and how wildly wrong that mental model was.
    - Tade0 3y ago
      Looking at the level of independence I and my peers handled at this age vs what is the norm now we might have overdone it.
    - Aeolun 3y ago
      I mean, to some extend, but I don’t necessarily think that working is bad for a 13 year old. If they can work in a supermarket to earn some side income they can work anywhere (under limited guidance).
    - treflop 3y ago
      Isn’t that just the average though? I’ve met plenty of wickedly level-headed 15 year olds and a whole lot of irresponsible 30 year olds. The variation is such to an extreme level too.
      - tasuki 3y ago
        This has been my experience too!
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      When I was 15, my brain was definitely pubescent and far from fully developed. But I was able to make some money by fixing computers or translating stuff from English to Czech anyway. There was no exploitation in those labor relations just because I was young. I am not manually skilled, but I can definitely see someone at 15 making a nice chair or a table instead. I don't think that 15 y.o.s should be treated as fully adult, some limitations on their work are perfectly OK (no ardous work, no work underground etc.). But barring them from working altogether will probably slow their development down. Not everything can be learnt from books or models, some real-world practice, including the most basic elements of interaction with customers/employers, is necessary.
  - gilfoy 3y ago
    yes my furniture is crafted exclusively by highly skilled 13 year olds.
    - imp0cat 3y ago
      Furniture AND iPhones ;)
  - graemep 3y ago
    So not far off compulsory school age in the UK, which is approximately 16. We do not get accused of child labour. Until recently you could work once you left school. Now you cannot do a full time job until you are 18, but can become an apprentice (so you get some training as well as working). There is nothing to stop you doing nothing. The requirement to not work until you are 18 has not been particularly beneficial. Brought to you (IIRC) by the same government that massively expanded the higher education system (a huge increase in the proportion of people going to university) for no real benefit.

tengbretson 3y ago

> They pull their kids out of school after grade 8 This is inaccurate. Their schooling is complete after grade 8.

SauciestGNU 3y ago
Like hell it is. What they want their kids learning is irrelevant, it's a travesty of "religious freedom" that we don't require this cult to educate their children to the same uniform standard as every other person in our society.
- throwaway892238 3y ago
  I dropped out of school in 9th grade. I make $200K a year. A friend of mine has a college degree and has been unemployed for a year. There is no uniform standard of education in the US. Kids in the South are being taught that evolution is on par with intelligent design. Poor black kids in Baltimore have on average a 3rd grade reading level in high school, while rich kids a few counties away are taught when to use a backdoor roth ira. Don't even mention "no child left behind". Maybe let's calm down a bit with the judgement.
  - boringg 3y ago
    "few counties away are taught when to use a backdoor roth ira" What are you on about? Nobody is talking about a back door roth IRA in high school.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- tengbretson 3y ago
  They are not "people in your society". They have their own society and you are not a member.