4 ms·

I agree with the fact Epic isn't little, but I also agree it's crazy Steam is still taking 30% post the Greenlight deluge. When they launched, afaik they were

I agree with the fact Epic isn't little, but I also agree it's crazy Steam is still taking 30% post the Greenlight deluge. When they launched, afaik they were being pretty selective. A game being on Steam meant it was a good game, and in a way they were actually a publisher providing you with high converting distribution channels. It was like marketing and PR were almost baked in. Now being on Steam means nothing. In fact they happily declared it means nothing: https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-will-no-longer-police-whats-on-steam-unless-its-illegal-or-trolling/ https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-will-no-longer-police-... Steam even normalized a class of game (Early Access) that actually means negative things in general. - Once they transitioned from publisher to glorified CDN + Forum Hosting, I think they should have reworked the pricing to reflect that.

TylerE 3y ago
Why should they voluntarily reduce a price their actual customers seem all too happy to pay? A dev's game being on Steam and having access to that massive customer base is much more valuable to that dev than Generic Looter Shooter #8589 is to Steam.
- BoiledCabbage 3y ago
  That's essentially the issue. Market effects competition failing. Compared to nothing, yes there is 30% value is CDN hosting and a forum. Compared to a competitor there isn't - it's mainly network effects. Or put differently, if you changed the name steam and launched them today along with a competitor that charges 15% is there enough more value to use Steam to downlad at that higher fee? The answer is very likely not; however, that competition can't happen because of past network effects. You want markets to compete on who has the better product, not on who got their first.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    If that was true, the competitors with lower fees would be flourishing while Valve struggles. Game buyers don't care about the cut. They pay the same price. They're absolutely going to use a more polished more reliable service that actually offers refunds for defective games.
    - BoorishBears 3y ago
      This is falling for the better mousetrap... trap: https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictionary/b/better-mousetrap-fallacy https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictiona... Game buyers are going to use the thing that's sitting on their desktop. Every other aspect of either store is tertiary. EGS has been shoveling money in a furnace, solely to also be sitting on some desktops, but Steam has a decade+ head start and it's going to be an absolute slog.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        Yea, what I totally want is going back to 10 years ago when my gaming PC was loaded down with a gazillion craptacular "launchers". Every publisher seemingly had one. I'll take Steam tyvm.
        BoorishBears 3y ago
        What I want is healthy competition for marketplaces so that one company can't massively diminish the value they were offering over the course of a decade and still command the same prices.
- tapoxi 3y ago
  Their customers aren't willing to pay it, Valve prevents you from selling your game for less elsewhere. So it's Steam and Valve gets the 30% cut, or another store that charges the same but they only take 12%. So some developers only sell on that other store, and then people boycott them for not being on Steam.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    That's called choice and the free market. Don't like the deal, don't take the deal. I'm sure everyone would love to pay their suppliers less. Doesn't mean that they should.
    - tapoxi 3y ago
      He didn't take the deal and created EGS, and we have more and more Unreal Engine games launch exclusively there. Sweeney didn't sue Valve or anything, he just complained about it.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    I have understood that price parity is only if you provide keys that Valve gives some number for free. If you do not provide them you can set price that isn't same as on Steam.
  - runsfromfire 3y ago
    The pricing restriction is only for selling steam keys on external services. So if your game is priced at $15 on steam, you can’t sell steam keys on the Humble Bundle store for $12. You can match sales within 30 days, they don’t need to be concurrent - so if your game is on sale on Steam for $10, you can offer the same discount on the Humble Store any time within 30 days before/after the sale. If you sell your game on other platforms and don’t use steam keys (e.g. distribute it DRM-free on GOG), you aren’t bound to the pricing clause. It only applies if you’re generating the keys on steam to sell elsewhere. You’re welcome to give your game away on GOG and still charge $50 on Steam, as long as you’re not giving away steam keys for your game on GOG.
Rohansi 3y ago
Steamworks, the APIs available to all games on Steam, is packed with tons of features and services that aren't a CDN + forum. Anyone making games for Steam should make use of those to get the most out of their 30% in fees. The following page lists some high level features but there's a lot more if you dig in: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features Worth noting that Epic's store does not provide most of this. You get what you pay for.
- chrishare 3y ago
  Or, Steam should have a lower rate for developers that don't care about 80% of those features.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    If they don't like it, they could use a different platform. The reason Steam gets my money is because the 10ft UX is by far better. It's not just a CDN, it's an experience to play games.
- BoorishBears 3y ago
  Wrong? > Worth noting that Epic's store does not provide most of this. You get what you pay for. Epic has EOS: https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/epic-online-services https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/epic-online-services And unlike Steam's solution, they're cross-platform aren't tied to being on EGS, meaning it's actually free, not costing you 30%. > Anyone making games for Steam should make use of those to get the most out of their 30% in fees. Not necessarily, because that will lock them into Steam. They should be using something like EGS or a 3rd party solution, because currently they end up needing to roll multiple versions of the game. - I'm very well aware of Steamworks, but Steamwork's time has passed except for integrating directly with Steam. The features it offered have been completely and utterly commoditized. You've got stuff like PlayFab, Rivet, Photon, Normcore, etc, all taking a hell of a lot less than 30% of your revenue, even at massive scale.
  - Rohansi 3y ago

TylerE 3y ago

Why should they voluntarily reduce a price their actual customers seem all too happy to pay? A dev's game being on Steam and having access to that massive customer base is much more valuable to that dev than Generic Looter Shooter #8589 is to Steam.

BoiledCabbage 3y ago
That's essentially the issue. Market effects competition failing. Compared to nothing, yes there is 30% value is CDN hosting and a forum. Compared to a competitor there isn't - it's mainly network effects. Or put differently, if you changed the name steam and launched them today along with a competitor that charges 15% is there enough more value to use Steam to downlad at that higher fee? The answer is very likely not; however, that competition can't happen because of past network effects. You want markets to compete on who has the better product, not on who got their first.
- TylerE 3y ago
  If that was true, the competitors with lower fees would be flourishing while Valve struggles. Game buyers don't care about the cut. They pay the same price. They're absolutely going to use a more polished more reliable service that actually offers refunds for defective games.
  - BoorishBears 3y ago
    This is falling for the better mousetrap... trap: https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictionary/b/better-mousetrap-fallacy https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictiona... Game buyers are going to use the thing that's sitting on their desktop. Every other aspect of either store is tertiary. EGS has been shoveling money in a furnace, solely to also be sitting on some desktops, but Steam has a decade+ head start and it's going to be an absolute slog.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      Yea, what I totally want is going back to 10 years ago when my gaming PC was loaded down with a gazillion craptacular "launchers". Every publisher seemingly had one. I'll take Steam tyvm.
      - BoorishBears 3y ago
        What I want is healthy competition for marketplaces so that one company can't massively diminish the value they were offering over the course of a decade and still command the same prices.
tapoxi 3y ago
Their customers aren't willing to pay it, Valve prevents you from selling your game for less elsewhere. So it's Steam and Valve gets the 30% cut, or another store that charges the same but they only take 12%. So some developers only sell on that other store, and then people boycott them for not being on Steam.
- TylerE 3y ago
  That's called choice and the free market. Don't like the deal, don't take the deal. I'm sure everyone would love to pay their suppliers less. Doesn't mean that they should.
  - tapoxi 3y ago
    He didn't take the deal and created EGS, and we have more and more Unreal Engine games launch exclusively there. Sweeney didn't sue Valve or anything, he just complained about it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Ekaros 3y ago
  I have understood that price parity is only if you provide keys that Valve gives some number for free. If you do not provide them you can set price that isn't same as on Steam.
- runsfromfire 3y ago
  The pricing restriction is only for selling steam keys on external services. So if your game is priced at $15 on steam, you can’t sell steam keys on the Humble Bundle store for $12. You can match sales within 30 days, they don’t need to be concurrent - so if your game is on sale on Steam for $10, you can offer the same discount on the Humble Store any time within 30 days before/after the sale. If you sell your game on other platforms and don’t use steam keys (e.g. distribute it DRM-free on GOG), you aren’t bound to the pricing clause. It only applies if you’re generating the keys on steam to sell elsewhere. You’re welcome to give your game away on GOG and still charge $50 on Steam, as long as you’re not giving away steam keys for your game on GOG.

Rohansi 3y ago

Steamworks, the APIs available to all games on Steam, is packed with tons of features and services that aren't a CDN + forum. Anyone making games for Steam should make use of those to get the most out of their 30% in fees. The following page lists some high level features but there's a lot more if you dig in: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features Worth noting that Epic's store does not provide most of this. You get what you pay for.

chrishare 3y ago
Or, Steam should have a lower rate for developers that don't care about 80% of those features.
- happymellon 3y ago
  If they don't like it, they could use a different platform. The reason Steam gets my money is because the 10ft UX is by far better. It's not just a CDN, it's an experience to play games.
BoorishBears 3y ago
Wrong? > Worth noting that Epic's store does not provide most of this. You get what you pay for. Epic has EOS: https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/epic-online-services https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/epic-online-services And unlike Steam's solution, they're cross-platform aren't tied to being on EGS, meaning it's actually free, not costing you 30%. > Anyone making games for Steam should make use of those to get the most out of their 30% in fees. Not necessarily, because that will lock them into Steam. They should be using something like EGS or a 3rd party solution, because currently they end up needing to roll multiple versions of the game. - I'm very well aware of Steamworks, but Steamwork's time has passed except for integrating directly with Steam. The features it offered have been completely and utterly commoditized. You've got stuff like PlayFab, Rivet, Photon, Normcore, etc, all taking a hell of a lot less than 30% of your revenue, even at massive scale.
- Rohansi 3y ago