4 ms·

This whole notion of epic being the little guy is just dumb. These platforms were built and supply a value. Epic tried and they give away games no stop to entic

This whole notion of epic being the little guy is just dumb. These platforms were built and supply a value. Epic tried and they give away games no stop to entice users to use the platform. It’s not great, steam is better. Instead focus on making better games and content that push me to buy. It just comes off as greedy and whiney.

TeaBrain 3y ago
It doesn't help that they've put in little effort to improve their platform. With all of the money that they've spent giving away games, they could have instead dedicated resources towards building a something akin to steam's community and rating system. Without that, Epic is unlikely to compete with steam as a vendor of non-exclusive games.
- happymellon 3y ago
  It doesn't help that they don't push the platform, it is simply not as good on a device like the deck, or a TV, and Tim Sweeney is so hostile to Linux making it stuck with the awful Windows UX. Games get my money on Steam because Steam provides me with a great experience to play those games. It's far more than just a CDN, and all it takes is to try to use an EA game on the Deck to see how bad other platforms are.
BoorishBears 3y ago
I agree with the fact Epic isn't little, but I also agree it's crazy Steam is still taking 30% post the Greenlight deluge. When they launched, afaik they were being pretty selective. A game being on Steam meant it was a good game, and in a way they were actually a publisher providing you with high converting distribution channels. It was like marketing and PR were almost baked in. Now being on Steam means nothing. In fact they happily declared it means nothing: https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-will-no-longer-police-whats-on-steam-unless-its-illegal-or-trolling/ https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-will-no-longer-police-... Steam even normalized a class of game (Early Access) that actually means negative things in general. - Once they transitioned from publisher to glorified CDN + Forum Hosting, I think they should have reworked the pricing to reflect that.
- TylerE 3y ago
  Why should they voluntarily reduce a price their actual customers seem all too happy to pay? A dev's game being on Steam and having access to that massive customer base is much more valuable to that dev than Generic Looter Shooter #8589 is to Steam.
  - BoiledCabbage 3y ago
    That's essentially the issue. Market effects competition failing. Compared to nothing, yes there is 30% value is CDN hosting and a forum. Compared to a competitor there isn't - it's mainly network effects. Or put differently, if you changed the name steam and launched them today along with a competitor that charges 15% is there enough more value to use Steam to downlad at that higher fee? The answer is very likely not; however, that competition can't happen because of past network effects. You want markets to compete on who has the better product, not on who got their first.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      If that was true, the competitors with lower fees would be flourishing while Valve struggles. Game buyers don't care about the cut. They pay the same price. They're absolutely going to use a more polished more reliable service that actually offers refunds for defective games.
      - BoorishBears 3y ago
        This is falling for the better mousetrap... trap: https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictionary/b/better-mousetrap-fallacy https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictiona... Game buyers are going to use the thing that's sitting on their desktop. Every other aspect of either store is tertiary. EGS has been shoveling money in a furnace, solely to also be sitting on some desktops, but Steam has a decade+ head start and it's going to be an absolute slog.
        TylerE 3y ago
lern_too_spel 3y ago
There is no notion of Epic being the little guy. There's a notion of one big guy's interests being aligned with consumers' interests on a particular topic.
- superbman 3y ago
  That's the best you can ever hope for from companies. Valve investing in Linux gaming? Same deal.
swatcoder 3y ago
They're not the little guy, but the things they're pushing for are what many little guys have calling for but would never have the individual leverage to force negotiation or compromise. They're whiny and petulant and they play dirty with the press, but Epic is ultimately staking their deep pockets and public reputation on championing the cause of many little guys.
pjmlp 3y ago
Naturally the whole issue is that their store isn't as successful. It is similar to how Microsoft is now unhappy to have to deal with Apple and Google, after killing Windows Phone, when it was around 10%. Turns out 10% market share was still better than not owning any mobile platform where they can't really push XBox games as they wish.
- thih9 3y ago
  > killing Windows Phone, when it was around 10% According to the verge they killed it when it was 2.5% [1]. IDC also lists 2.5% by the second quarter of 2014 and a peak of 3.4% in 2013 [2]. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/10/16452162/windows-phone-history-glorious-failure https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/10/16452162/windows-phone-h... [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    My numbers say otherwise, as I was focused on European market when I wrote my comment. https://www.ft.com/content/80972f3a-29c0-11e3-bbb8-00144feab7de https://www.ft.com/content/80972f3a-29c0-11e3-bbb8-00144feab... https://thenextweb.com/news/report-windows-phone-overtakes-ios-in-italy-and-makes-progress-in-europe https://thenextweb.com/news/report-windows-phone-overtakes-i... https://thenextweb.com/news/windows-phone-climbs-to-nearly-10-of-smartphone-sales-across-great-britain-germany-france-italy-and-spain https://thenextweb.com/news/windows-phone-climbs-to-nearly-1...
    - thih9 3y ago
      I’m not seeing numbers that show otherwise. Unless you meant that the 10% was for europe only?
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        > According to data from a Kantar Worldpanel ComTech report for the last three months up to August this year, Windows Phone-based devices accounted for 9.2 percent of smartphone sales in Great Britain, Germany, France, Italy and Spain. You can play pedantic and assert 9.2 isn't the same as rounding it off to 10, anyway.

TeaBrain 3y ago

It doesn't help that they've put in little effort to improve their platform. With all of the money that they've spent giving away games, they could have instead dedicated resources towards building a something akin to steam's community and rating system. Without that, Epic is unlikely to compete with steam as a vendor of non-exclusive games.

happymellon 3y ago
It doesn't help that they don't push the platform, it is simply not as good on a device like the deck, or a TV, and Tim Sweeney is so hostile to Linux making it stuck with the awful Windows UX. Games get my money on Steam because Steam provides me with a great experience to play those games. It's far more than just a CDN, and all it takes is to try to use an EA game on the Deck to see how bad other platforms are.

BoorishBears 3y ago

I agree with the fact Epic isn't little, but I also agree it's crazy Steam is still taking 30% post the Greenlight deluge. When they launched, afaik they were being pretty selective. A game being on Steam meant it was a good game, and in a way they were actually a publisher providing you with high converting distribution channels. It was like marketing and PR were almost baked in. Now being on Steam means nothing. In fact they happily declared it means nothing: https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-will-no-longer-police-whats-on-steam-unless-its-illegal-or-trolling/ https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-will-no-longer-police-... Steam even normalized a class of game (Early Access) that actually means negative things in general. - Once they transitioned from publisher to glorified CDN + Forum Hosting, I think they should have reworked the pricing to reflect that.

TylerE 3y ago
Why should they voluntarily reduce a price their actual customers seem all too happy to pay? A dev's game being on Steam and having access to that massive customer base is much more valuable to that dev than Generic Looter Shooter #8589 is to Steam.
- BoiledCabbage 3y ago
  That's essentially the issue. Market effects competition failing. Compared to nothing, yes there is 30% value is CDN hosting and a forum. Compared to a competitor there isn't - it's mainly network effects. Or put differently, if you changed the name steam and launched them today along with a competitor that charges 15% is there enough more value to use Steam to downlad at that higher fee? The answer is very likely not; however, that competition can't happen because of past network effects. You want markets to compete on who has the better product, not on who got their first.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    If that was true, the competitors with lower fees would be flourishing while Valve struggles. Game buyers don't care about the cut. They pay the same price. They're absolutely going to use a more polished more reliable service that actually offers refunds for defective games.
    - BoorishBears 3y ago
      This is falling for the better mousetrap... trap: https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictionary/b/better-mousetrap-fallacy https://www.monash.edu/business/marketing/marketing-dictiona... Game buyers are going to use the thing that's sitting on their desktop. Every other aspect of either store is tertiary. EGS has been shoveling money in a furnace, solely to also be sitting on some desktops, but Steam has a decade+ head start and it's going to be an absolute slog.
      - TylerE 3y ago

lern_too_spel 3y ago

There is no notion of Epic being the little guy. There's a notion of one big guy's interests being aligned with consumers' interests on a particular topic.

superbman 3y ago
That's the best you can ever hope for from companies. Valve investing in Linux gaming? Same deal.

swatcoder 3y ago

They're not the little guy, but the things they're pushing for are what many little guys have calling for but would never have the individual leverage to force negotiation or compromise. They're whiny and petulant and they play dirty with the press, but Epic is ultimately staking their deep pockets and public reputation on championing the cause of many little guys.

pjmlp 3y ago

Naturally the whole issue is that their store isn't as successful. It is similar to how Microsoft is now unhappy to have to deal with Apple and Google, after killing Windows Phone, when it was around 10%. Turns out 10% market share was still better than not owning any mobile platform where they can't really push XBox games as they wish.

thih9 3y ago
> killing Windows Phone, when it was around 10% According to the verge they killed it when it was 2.5% [1]. IDC also lists 2.5% by the second quarter of 2014 and a peak of 3.4% in 2013 [2]. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/10/16452162/windows-phone-history-glorious-failure https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/10/16452162/windows-phone-h... [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone
- pjmlp 3y ago
  My numbers say otherwise, as I was focused on European market when I wrote my comment. https://www.ft.com/content/80972f3a-29c0-11e3-bbb8-00144feab7de https://www.ft.com/content/80972f3a-29c0-11e3-bbb8-00144feab... https://thenextweb.com/news/report-windows-phone-overtakes-ios-in-italy-and-makes-progress-in-europe https://thenextweb.com/news/report-windows-phone-overtakes-i... https://thenextweb.com/news/windows-phone-climbs-to-nearly-10-of-smartphone-sales-across-great-britain-germany-france-italy-and-spain https://thenextweb.com/news/windows-phone-climbs-to-nearly-1...
  - thih9 3y ago
    I’m not seeing numbers that show otherwise. Unless you meant that the 10% was for europe only?
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      > According to data from a Kantar Worldpanel ComTech report for the last three months up to August this year, Windows Phone-based devices accounted for 9.2 percent of smartphone sales in Great Britain, Germany, France, Italy and Spain. You can play pedantic and assert 9.2 isn't the same as rounding it off to 10, anyway.