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> The best fit in a healthy society, I think, is doing things that others can’t, like extreme sport type of stuff, or astronaut, brain surgeon Reminds me of th

> The best fit in a healthy society, I think, is doing things that others can’t, like extreme sport type of stuff, or astronaut, brain surgeon Reminds me of the Bill Burr bit on Lance Armstrong[1] > The guy was a sociopath on a bicycle. As far as I'm concerned we got off easy. If that guy was working for a corporation he would have been pouring stuff in the water supply, doing god knows what. Just keep him on the bike. Let him go up and down hills. He's not hurting anybody. --- 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9YL04v-J5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9YL04v-J5U

coldtea 3y ago
Though on the matter of Lance Armstrong, well, tons of others, in the same races, did the same things.
- freejazz 3y ago
  Armstrong ruined the careers of his colleagues that didn't want to participate in his doping. He was the doping kingpin. https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/29240335 https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/29240335 Here's Lance chasing down another rider and publicly threatening them to "zip their lips" when they were trying to go public about the doping in the peloton.
Lio 3y ago
> He's not hurting anybody. Well he did insist that other members of his team also take EPO, HGH, blood transfusions (occasionally with bad blood), etc. We don't know what the long term affects of that will be but he certainly wasn't thinking of health of his staff. He also destroyed Greg LeMond's career for exposing him.
- williamcotton 3y ago
  “Well actually, Mr. Comedian …”
  - Lio 3y ago
    Hey, I'm not telling you the joke isn't funny. Burr cracks me up. I'm just saying that Armstrong did more than just cheat in bike races.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
  They're adults and can make their own decisions
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Might be a sociopath, look into it. Seriously though, this ignores that sometimes, being of age of consent ("an adult") does not mean there is a free will choice available. Edit: @bombcar Stealing that, thank you!
    - bombcar 3y ago
      The idea that consent is both necessary AND sufficient needs to be laid to rest. Consent may be necessary (there can be discussions when and where it is necessary and what that means, for example "consenting" to taxes, etc) but it is not sufficient in all cases.
      - helboi4 3y ago
        Yeah its a bit of dangerous idea to act like its okay to do anything to people if they ostensibly "consent".
        zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
        Do anything? Doping has been a "problem" in cycling since the start of the sport. It's not like Lance Armstrong was the first or last person to cheat like that. He was just the best and I find it admirable.
        helboi4 3y ago
        Bro what are you on about. I'm talking about forcing people to do things not someone doping.
        zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
gosub100 3y ago
He's hurting all the other players who do not dope, and hurting the sport in general by creating an incentive for most people to dope, tarnishing the reputation.
- pwthornton 3y ago
  He doped because extreme endurance events pretty much demand doping.
  - thephyber 3y ago
    Wrong. His doping and his coordination of doping across his team pushed other teams to dope to compete with his team. There was no obvious suspicion of doping prior to his team and that is clear that Lance and his team were performing far above the level of the other teams in his early doping days. Your statement is only true after the doping snowball exists within many teams of that sport. If the athletes didn’t lie or if they were caught in a reasonable amount of time, then there is no need for doping. I’m guessing you are making unstated assumptions because of your wording when you say “pretty much demand”. Are there any non-obvious assumptions that might be interesting to discuss?
  - gosub100 3y ago
    what does "pretty much demand" mean? You mean literally no human is capable of completing the event because they will drop to the ground of exhaustion? Of course not, you'll leave a vague comment that leaves you wiggle room instead of taking a precise position on the matter.

coldtea 3y ago

Though on the matter of Lance Armstrong, well, tons of others, in the same races, did the same things.

freejazz 3y ago
Armstrong ruined the careers of his colleagues that didn't want to participate in his doping. He was the doping kingpin. https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/29240335 https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/29240335 Here's Lance chasing down another rider and publicly threatening them to "zip their lips" when they were trying to go public about the doping in the peloton.

Lio 3y ago

> He's not hurting anybody. Well he did insist that other members of his team also take EPO, HGH, blood transfusions (occasionally with bad blood), etc. We don't know what the long term affects of that will be but he certainly wasn't thinking of health of his staff. He also destroyed Greg LeMond's career for exposing him.

williamcotton 3y ago
“Well actually, Mr. Comedian …”
- Lio 3y ago
  Hey, I'm not telling you the joke isn't funny. Burr cracks me up. I'm just saying that Armstrong did more than just cheat in bike races.
zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
They're adults and can make their own decisions
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Might be a sociopath, look into it. Seriously though, this ignores that sometimes, being of age of consent ("an adult") does not mean there is a free will choice available. Edit: @bombcar Stealing that, thank you!
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The idea that consent is both necessary AND sufficient needs to be laid to rest. Consent may be necessary (there can be discussions when and where it is necessary and what that means, for example "consenting" to taxes, etc) but it is not sufficient in all cases.
    - helboi4 3y ago
      Yeah its a bit of dangerous idea to act like its okay to do anything to people if they ostensibly "consent".
      - zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
        Do anything? Doping has been a "problem" in cycling since the start of the sport. It's not like Lance Armstrong was the first or last person to cheat like that. He was just the best and I find it admirable.
        helboi4 3y ago
        Bro what are you on about. I'm talking about forcing people to do things not someone doping.
        zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago

gosub100 3y ago

He's hurting all the other players who do not dope, and hurting the sport in general by creating an incentive for most people to dope, tarnishing the reputation.

pwthornton 3y ago
He doped because extreme endurance events pretty much demand doping.
- thephyber 3y ago
  Wrong. His doping and his coordination of doping across his team pushed other teams to dope to compete with his team. There was no obvious suspicion of doping prior to his team and that is clear that Lance and his team were performing far above the level of the other teams in his early doping days. Your statement is only true after the doping snowball exists within many teams of that sport. If the athletes didn’t lie or if they were caught in a reasonable amount of time, then there is no need for doping. I’m guessing you are making unstated assumptions because of your wording when you say “pretty much demand”. Are there any non-obvious assumptions that might be interesting to discuss?
- gosub100 3y ago
  what does "pretty much demand" mean? You mean literally no human is capable of completing the event because they will drop to the ground of exhaustion? Of course not, you'll leave a vague comment that leaves you wiggle room instead of taking a precise position on the matter.