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How is it a mistake for TikTok to ask Americans to participate in their representative democracy? Do we not remember when Google and Facebook blacked out their

How is it a mistake for TikTok to ask Americans to participate in their representative democracy? Do we not remember when Google and Facebook blacked out their sites to stop SOPA from passing, how is TikTok's notification any different?

hparadiz 3y ago
The whole reason this is even happening is because they've been caught pushing political content that is blatantly either pro-China or meant to stir shit up in the American population. The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government. In other words the USA is trying to strip the CCP of that power. They could've played ball and not pushed politics and we'd have left them alone to make their money but instead they tried to bite the hand that feeds.
- segasaturn 3y ago
  > The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government Yes, the power of democracy. People spoke up and prevented a harmful law from being passed - why is TikTok exercising that right, in the same way as Google and Facebook, a problem? It sounds like you want the US to become like the CCP instead of vice versa.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Because TikTok is owned by one of our adversaries. They’ve been accused of pushing propaganda and they just accidentally proved how effective they can be at causing political change in the US. Exactly what their opponents were afraid they had the power to do. It looks REALLY bad. In this case it wasn’t anything sinister and they were open about it but tactically it was probably a massive mistake. Also why didn’t they just tell everyone in the US? Why did only certain users get the message? Because of where they lived? Because they were voting age? They also proved they have an ability to target specific people for political action based on some (unknown) criteria. That also looks horrible and plays right into their opponents hands.
    - jjfoooo4 3y ago
      > Exactly what their opponents were afraid they had the power to do. They notified their users that their elected representatives were fast tracking a bill targeted at the service they were using. Negotiated in secret because those representatives knew it would be enormously unpopular with their constituents.
- dpkirchner 3y ago
  No, the whole reason this is happening is it distracts us from more serious issues such as Chinese labor practices. If politicians can "take China seriously" by banning TikTok they don't need to talk about barring import of products made using forced labor, say.
  - maxwell 3y ago
    Didn't they already do that with the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act in 2021? Or are you referring to other regions of CCP-occupied China?
    - dpkirchner 3y ago
      It looks like that has blocked about $100M in goods shipped from Xinjiang since inception -- about 1/3 of shipments from that region and less than 1% total imports from China in that period. I'm not sure that token amount counts as taking it seriously.
calibas 3y ago
The US government is accusing the CCP of using TikTok to manipulate democracy. TikTok responded by attempting to manipulate democracy. They did they very thing the government trying to ban them is scared of. Doesn't seem like a smart move to me, I guess we'll see how it plays outs
- Buttons840 3y ago
  It might not result in maximum ByteDance profits, but TikTok's notification will help a generation of "youths" realize the political process affects them and help them care about technology censorship issues. This is a good thing.
- segasaturn 3y ago
  Raising awareness about a bill in Congress and giving US citizens the tools to speak to their representatives about it isn't "manipulating democracy", it promotes democracy. That is a foundational part of how American democracy is supposed to work, the reps vote on bills but the citizens have the last word - if that's so unacceptable that lawmakers would change sides to ban TikTok in response then Americans should start making funeral preparations for their democracy, because it sounds like these lawmakers want their constituents to be docile, silent and ignorant.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    It’s a look thing. Just horrible optics. I get why they’d want people to contact their representatives. But they went about it in a very tactless way.
  - rmbyrro 3y ago
    Maybe a bit naive to think that a CCP-backed company is doing something for democracy. Maybe, just maybe... I dunno...
  - calibas 3y ago
    In a strict technical sense, you are correct. Anything that encourages individuals to participate in their government is promoting democracy. However, I think it's heavy whitewashing to look at this whole situation and says it's TikTok promoting democracy. I find it very hard to believe TikTok is doing this being they genuinely want to promote democracy in the US. This threatens to end TikTok's influence over millions of Americans, they have a business/political stake in this. They're encouraging people to contact their representatives, not because it's in the individual's best interest, but because it's in TikTok's best interest. That's why it's manipulative. Also, I'm of the opinion the foreign-funded propaganda is generally unhealthy for a democracy. Edit: Just to be clear, I don't really want to ban TikTok. I don't trust TikTok, but I also don't want to increase the federal government's ability to censor what Americans can view. In the process of battling Chinese influence, I don't want the US to become more like China.
nexuist 3y ago
Do you not see the difference in American companies asking Americans to pressure their American representatives on American legislature, vs. a Chinese company doing this? If Google tried to do the same thing in China when the CCP were debating banning YouTube their mainland employees would have been arrested and "disappeared."
- seoulmetro 3y ago
  Either you don't understand that American problems flow overseas or are just naive. American problems get exported en mass to other people via social media and the tech people still continue to flood with visuals on them regardless of where you are.

hparadiz 3y ago

The whole reason this is even happening is because they've been caught pushing political content that is blatantly either pro-China or meant to stir shit up in the American population. The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government. In other words the USA is trying to strip the CCP of that power. They could've played ball and not pushed politics and we'd have left them alone to make their money but instead they tried to bite the hand that feeds.

segasaturn 3y ago
> The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government Yes, the power of democracy. People spoke up and prevented a harmful law from being passed - why is TikTok exercising that right, in the same way as Google and Facebook, a problem? It sounds like you want the US to become like the CCP instead of vice versa.
- MBCook 3y ago
  Because TikTok is owned by one of our adversaries. They’ve been accused of pushing propaganda and they just accidentally proved how effective they can be at causing political change in the US. Exactly what their opponents were afraid they had the power to do. It looks REALLY bad. In this case it wasn’t anything sinister and they were open about it but tactically it was probably a massive mistake. Also why didn’t they just tell everyone in the US? Why did only certain users get the message? Because of where they lived? Because they were voting age? They also proved they have an ability to target specific people for political action based on some (unknown) criteria. That also looks horrible and plays right into their opponents hands.
  - jjfoooo4 3y ago
    > Exactly what their opponents were afraid they had the power to do. They notified their users that their elected representatives were fast tracking a bill targeted at the service they were using. Negotiated in secret because those representatives knew it would be enormously unpopular with their constituents.
dpkirchner 3y ago
No, the whole reason this is happening is it distracts us from more serious issues such as Chinese labor practices. If politicians can "take China seriously" by banning TikTok they don't need to talk about barring import of products made using forced labor, say.
- maxwell 3y ago
  Didn't they already do that with the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act in 2021? Or are you referring to other regions of CCP-occupied China?
  - dpkirchner 3y ago
    It looks like that has blocked about $100M in goods shipped from Xinjiang since inception -- about 1/3 of shipments from that region and less than 1% total imports from China in that period. I'm not sure that token amount counts as taking it seriously.

calibas 3y ago

The US government is accusing the CCP of using TikTok to manipulate democracy. TikTok responded by attempting to manipulate democracy. They did they very thing the government trying to ban them is scared of. Doesn't seem like a smart move to me, I guess we'll see how it plays outs

Buttons840 3y ago
It might not result in maximum ByteDance profits, but TikTok's notification will help a generation of "youths" realize the political process affects them and help them care about technology censorship issues. This is a good thing.
segasaturn 3y ago
Raising awareness about a bill in Congress and giving US citizens the tools to speak to their representatives about it isn't "manipulating democracy", it promotes democracy. That is a foundational part of how American democracy is supposed to work, the reps vote on bills but the citizens have the last word - if that's so unacceptable that lawmakers would change sides to ban TikTok in response then Americans should start making funeral preparations for their democracy, because it sounds like these lawmakers want their constituents to be docile, silent and ignorant.
- MBCook 3y ago
  It’s a look thing. Just horrible optics. I get why they’d want people to contact their representatives. But they went about it in a very tactless way.
- rmbyrro 3y ago
  Maybe a bit naive to think that a CCP-backed company is doing something for democracy. Maybe, just maybe... I dunno...
- calibas 3y ago
  In a strict technical sense, you are correct. Anything that encourages individuals to participate in their government is promoting democracy. However, I think it's heavy whitewashing to look at this whole situation and says it's TikTok promoting democracy. I find it very hard to believe TikTok is doing this being they genuinely want to promote democracy in the US. This threatens to end TikTok's influence over millions of Americans, they have a business/political stake in this. They're encouraging people to contact their representatives, not because it's in the individual's best interest, but because it's in TikTok's best interest. That's why it's manipulative. Also, I'm of the opinion the foreign-funded propaganda is generally unhealthy for a democracy. Edit: Just to be clear, I don't really want to ban TikTok. I don't trust TikTok, but I also don't want to increase the federal government's ability to censor what Americans can view. In the process of battling Chinese influence, I don't want the US to become more like China.

nexuist 3y ago

Do you not see the difference in American companies asking Americans to pressure their American representatives on American legislature, vs. a Chinese company doing this? If Google tried to do the same thing in China when the CCP were debating banning YouTube their mainland employees would have been arrested and "disappeared."

seoulmetro 3y ago
Either you don't understand that American problems flow overseas or are just naive. American problems get exported en mass to other people via social media and the tech people still continue to flood with visuals on them regardless of where you are.