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I'm interested to see how this plays out. TikTok is popular enough that I can imagine it's making enough money outside the US to just let them ban it and not se

I'm interested to see how this plays out. TikTok is popular enough that I can imagine it's making enough money outside the US to just let them ban it and not sell. The whole thing is interesting to watch from a non-China/US perspective. It feels like a move to make the US government look strong to its citizens. A move that, unusually, can have bipartisan support. It feels like propaganda really. And judging by the comments here and elsewhere it seems to be working. Of all the 'threats' faced by the US, a Chinese social media app is really at the bottom of the totem pole. US elections are far more influenced by nefarious actors on US owned social media platforms - but nobody wants to do anything about that.

aprilthird2021 3y ago
Idk, every person I talk to thinks it's crazy that the US is this close to banning an app because it doesn't like the content. The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself...
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  It's a different world than the one where our ideas of freedom were born in. Used to be we were talking about somebody on a soapbox in a park. Now, it's a firehose of misinformation spread instantly to hundreds of millions. A tidal wave. A hurricane. What should we do? How do we put the genie back in the bottle?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - frumper 3y ago
    It's also a firehose of misinformation you choose to jump into. One can reasonably watch TikTok with the understanding that it might be good for entertainment or learning about things that don't really matter. It's a terrible news source, just like any other user content driven platform.
    - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
      Three-quarters of Gen-Z spend an hour a day. It's easy to say 'it's all voluntary' but at some point it isn't. It's addiction.
- basisword 3y ago
  >> The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. It's odd that the people who are so adamant that we can't ban 'hate speech' because 'it's a slippery slope' don't seem to care that the government banning us from viewing content is also quite a serious slipper slope. >> But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself. It's a net-positive for all the people working at Facebook + Twitter which is where the eyeballs will be diverted to.
- matwood 3y ago
  It's not about being allowed, but more about being steered. And yes, other social media platforms have similar issues with algorithmic feeds, but they are currently a less clear national security threat. Though, one could argue they are radicalizing internal threats.
  - aprilthird2021 3y ago
    >less clear national security threat. Though, one could argue they are radicalizing internal threats. I don't and will never buy this argument that showing people certain media causes violence or is a security threat. People doing violent things is a security threat. What they read or believed that led them to do that is not. Freedom of expression is vital and defending it comes with serious negative consequences. It means defending heinous views, some which have only ever been linked with radicals and violence. But they are allowed to say those views and to say them to other people. And people are allowed to read, watch, and see those views. I'll die on that hill any day
    - matwood 3y ago
      I agree with you! But where I differ is when people get trapped in these algorithmic bubbles because they happen to search for or like something once or twice. Then they are fire hosed that type of content over and over, which IMO is very different than being allowed to say or see something.
      - aprilthird2021 3y ago
        That's indeed where we differ. If I were alive when the radio were invented or the television, I wouldn't think the technical change changed my ideals, and I don't think that now
  - roncesvalles 3y ago
    This "being steered" argument is bullshit. Are Fox News and CNN not steering their viewers toward a very specific democratic outcome? TV shows, movies, even books. Every piece of media that you consume wants to influence your vote one way or another.
- seoulmetro 3y ago
  Americans are conditioned to relish double standards.
ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
I think you're underestimating how powerful social media and TikTok in particular is
- dang 3y ago
  Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39700658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39700658.
TMWNN 3y ago
>TikTok is popular enough that I can imagine it's making enough money outside the US to just let them ban it and not sell. Back in 2020, 10% of TikTok users were American but they accounted for 50% of revenue, or something like that. Any US shutdown would be catastrophic for TikTok's valuation.
seoulmetro 3y ago
China beat them at their own game so now they want to take the ball and run home.
- number_man 3y ago
  China has certainly beaten the US in banning websites like TikTok.

aprilthird2021 3y ago

Idk, every person I talk to thinks it's crazy that the US is this close to banning an app because it doesn't like the content. The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself...

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
It's a different world than the one where our ideas of freedom were born in. Used to be we were talking about somebody on a soapbox in a park. Now, it's a firehose of misinformation spread instantly to hundreds of millions. A tidal wave. A hurricane. What should we do? How do we put the genie back in the bottle?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- frumper 3y ago
  It's also a firehose of misinformation you choose to jump into. One can reasonably watch TikTok with the understanding that it might be good for entertainment or learning about things that don't really matter. It's a terrible news source, just like any other user content driven platform.
  - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
    Three-quarters of Gen-Z spend an hour a day. It's easy to say 'it's all voluntary' but at some point it isn't. It's addiction.
basisword 3y ago
>> The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. It's odd that the people who are so adamant that we can't ban 'hate speech' because 'it's a slippery slope' don't seem to care that the government banning us from viewing content is also quite a serious slipper slope. >> But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself. It's a net-positive for all the people working at Facebook + Twitter which is where the eyeballs will be diverted to.
matwood 3y ago
It's not about being allowed, but more about being steered. And yes, other social media platforms have similar issues with algorithmic feeds, but they are currently a less clear national security threat. Though, one could argue they are radicalizing internal threats.
- aprilthird2021 3y ago
  >less clear national security threat. Though, one could argue they are radicalizing internal threats. I don't and will never buy this argument that showing people certain media causes violence or is a security threat. People doing violent things is a security threat. What they read or believed that led them to do that is not. Freedom of expression is vital and defending it comes with serious negative consequences. It means defending heinous views, some which have only ever been linked with radicals and violence. But they are allowed to say those views and to say them to other people. And people are allowed to read, watch, and see those views. I'll die on that hill any day
  - matwood 3y ago
    I agree with you! But where I differ is when people get trapped in these algorithmic bubbles because they happen to search for or like something once or twice. Then they are fire hosed that type of content over and over, which IMO is very different than being allowed to say or see something.
    - aprilthird2021 3y ago
      That's indeed where we differ. If I were alive when the radio were invented or the television, I wouldn't think the technical change changed my ideals, and I don't think that now
- roncesvalles 3y ago
  This "being steered" argument is bullshit. Are Fox News and CNN not steering their viewers toward a very specific democratic outcome? TV shows, movies, even books. Every piece of media that you consume wants to influence your vote one way or another.
seoulmetro 3y ago
Americans are conditioned to relish double standards.

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago

I think you're underestimating how powerful social media and TikTok in particular is

dang 3y ago
Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39700658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39700658.

TMWNN 3y ago

>TikTok is popular enough that I can imagine it's making enough money outside the US to just let them ban it and not sell. Back in 2020, 10% of TikTok users were American but they accounted for 50% of revenue, or something like that. Any US shutdown would be catastrophic for TikTok's valuation.

seoulmetro 3y ago

China beat them at their own game so now they want to take the ball and run home.

number_man 3y ago
China has certainly beaten the US in banning websites like TikTok.