3 ms·

Thank you, McDouglas Man Bad is a tired meme. The problem is Boeing.

by Dalewyn 3y ago

epolanski 3y ago
But the behaviour hasn't changed. Aggressive stock buy backs while losing billions and poor culture are still there.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Do we blame a company that ceased to exist 27 years ago for the problems of today? Protecting Boeing from blame is precisely the opposite of what we should be doing. The problem is Boeing.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    We may (justly) blame the problems of today on the culture change that the merger brought. But that gives us no way forward, and 27 years later, there's no way of un-scrambling the egg. To fix Boeing, we're going to have to start with the Boeing we have now.
    - Kon-Peki 3y ago
      > there's no way of un-scrambling the egg. As usual, there's a kids educational show to drive the concept home (fast forward to 3:30 for the meat of it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wegg7ewXC8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wegg7ewXC8 With the associated music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAAnGjjCI5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAAnGjjCI5M
- nradov 3y ago
  There's no reason to complain about stock buy backs. Most profitable public companies should be returning a portion of those profits to shareholders through stock buy backs.
  - renegade-otter 3y ago
    No they should not. Stock buybacks of such recklessness were not even legal until Reagan - for this exact reason. It's not good business when your stock is growing and your company is dying. In fact, it's just an accounting trick which is essentially vulture capitalism - but from the inside. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/25/business/bed-bath-beyond-share-repurchases/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/25/business/bed-bath-beyond-shar... "The $11.8 billion Bed Bath & Beyond spent on its own stock since 2004 comes to more than twice the $5.2 billion in debt it had on its books in its most recent SEC filing, a debt load that proved crushing for the company. It left the company unable to buy the inventory required to create the sales it needed to reverse losses. “The company’s stewardship of their capital failed,” said Declan Gargan, retail director and credit analyst who follows Bed Bath & Beyond for S&P Global Ratings."
    - nradov 3y ago
      Nonsense. If the shareholders prefer to take capital out instead of reinvesting in the business there's nothing wrong with that. And if businesses sometimes die as a consequence then so what. Individual businesses have no particular right to exist indefinitely. The only reason that companies use stock buy backs instead of dividends to return capital to shareholders is double taxation. If Congress eliminated the double taxation then there would be little reason for stock buy backs.
      - renegade-otter 3y ago
        Thank you for defining "broken capitalism".
        nradov 3y ago
        Snarky complaints are cheap. What are you proposing exactly? Should people donate their capital to businesses and expect nothing in return? Should all businesses continue operating forever?
        3y ago

Thank you, McDouglas Man Bad is a tired meme. The problem is Boeing.

epolanski 3y ago

But the behaviour hasn't changed. Aggressive stock buy backs while losing billions and poor culture are still there.

Dalewyn 3y ago
Do we blame a company that ceased to exist 27 years ago for the problems of today? Protecting Boeing from blame is precisely the opposite of what we should be doing. The problem is Boeing.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  We may (justly) blame the problems of today on the culture change that the merger brought. But that gives us no way forward, and 27 years later, there's no way of un-scrambling the egg. To fix Boeing, we're going to have to start with the Boeing we have now.
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    > there's no way of un-scrambling the egg. As usual, there's a kids educational show to drive the concept home (fast forward to 3:30 for the meat of it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wegg7ewXC8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wegg7ewXC8 With the associated music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAAnGjjCI5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAAnGjjCI5M
nradov 3y ago
There's no reason to complain about stock buy backs. Most profitable public companies should be returning a portion of those profits to shareholders through stock buy backs.
- renegade-otter 3y ago
  No they should not. Stock buybacks of such recklessness were not even legal until Reagan - for this exact reason. It's not good business when your stock is growing and your company is dying. In fact, it's just an accounting trick which is essentially vulture capitalism - but from the inside. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/25/business/bed-bath-beyond-share-repurchases/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/25/business/bed-bath-beyond-shar... "The $11.8 billion Bed Bath & Beyond spent on its own stock since 2004 comes to more than twice the $5.2 billion in debt it had on its books in its most recent SEC filing, a debt load that proved crushing for the company. It left the company unable to buy the inventory required to create the sales it needed to reverse losses. “The company’s stewardship of their capital failed,” said Declan Gargan, retail director and credit analyst who follows Bed Bath & Beyond for S&P Global Ratings."
  - nradov 3y ago
    Nonsense. If the shareholders prefer to take capital out instead of reinvesting in the business there's nothing wrong with that. And if businesses sometimes die as a consequence then so what. Individual businesses have no particular right to exist indefinitely. The only reason that companies use stock buy backs instead of dividends to return capital to shareholders is double taxation. If Congress eliminated the double taxation then there would be little reason for stock buy backs.
    - renegade-otter 3y ago
      Thank you for defining "broken capitalism".
      - nradov 3y ago
        Snarky complaints are cheap. What are you proposing exactly? Should people donate their capital to businesses and expect nothing in return? Should all businesses continue operating forever?
        3y ago