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Can someone explain what purpose a manned fighter jet serves in the age of UCAV? I understand with the F35 specifically it’s turned into a jobs programme, but w

by lijok 3y ago

Can someone explain what purpose a manned fighter jet serves in the age of UCAV? I understand with the F35 specifically it’s turned into a jobs programme, but why not turn it unmanned?

roenxi 3y ago
Logically, if it was unmanned, wouldn't that result in less jobs?
CobaltFire 3y ago
Part of the design brief for the F-35 is to be a battlefield C&C for drones in the future. So the pilot would be the controlling authority in the battle space for allowing weapons free, etc. No idea if that will come true, but it was absolutely one capability briefed. I'm not a project participant, but I was peripheral both during development and early operational stages .
- dylan604 3y ago
  Why? We already have AWACS that essentially serves as C&C for fighter squadrons. Although, I could see how it might proceed as you suggest. Allow AWACS to direct squadrons into areas of interest and keep the bigger picture in mind while allowing the squadron level pilots to C&C the drones and focus on the details of which targets to engage. All from a nicely air conditioned "cockpit" from Sunnyvale
  - nradov 3y ago
    The UCAVs produced under the Collaborative Combat Aircraft (aka "loyal wingman") program will eventually be controllable from a variety of manned platforms including E-2/E-3/E-7 AWACS aircraft. But in a potential conflict with China they will be forced to hang back out of easy data link range due to the escalating AAM threat. https://www.twz.com/massive-pl-17-air-to-air-missile-seen-on-chinese-j-16-fighters https://www.twz.com/massive-pl-17-air-to-air-missile-seen-on... Remote piloting generally isn't a viable approach for near-peer conflicts. The communication links are too vulnerable, and even when they're working the latency is too high.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Can someone explain what purpose a manned fighter jet serves in the age of UCAV? We’re not yet in the age of UCAVs that can match, tactic for tactic, a human pilot in a military context. We’re getting there. But not yet.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
AIs aren't good enough to fly it autonomously. That means it would have to be controlled, which means it would have to continuously transmit situational information back to the controller. So goodbye stealth.
Kubuxu 3y ago
1. Development started in 2000, and the first airframe (albeit with non-finalized parts) rolled off in 2006. 2. The pilot can make independent decisions even in the presence of overwhelming communication jamming.
zer00eyz 3y ago
Its a fair question. DO you really want nukes on a UAV? The last step in that has always been a human, and I would like that to remain NOT on a connection that can be remotely highjacked (even if a slim margin). The question is will we get more UCAV in the f35 role. The answer is "maybe". It's not like remote pilots on a carrier are any safer from dying in a peer engagement than if they were in the plane. In fact you may make yourself vulnerable to a decapation strike at that point. But why dont we have the pilots in, say Arizona. Well latency is a bitch, I'll leave it to Grace Hopper to explain why this is bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2uls6iIEU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2uls6iIEU
credit_guy 3y ago
Electronic warfare. Drones can be jammed. They can even be taken over, like Iran famously did in 2011 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...

by lijok 3y ago

Can someone explain what purpose a manned fighter jet serves in the age of UCAV? I understand with the F35 specifically it’s turned into a jobs programme, but why not turn it unmanned?

roenxi 3y ago

Logically, if it was unmanned, wouldn't that result in less jobs?

CobaltFire 3y ago

Part of the design brief for the F-35 is to be a battlefield C&C for drones in the future. So the pilot would be the controlling authority in the battle space for allowing weapons free, etc. No idea if that will come true, but it was absolutely one capability briefed. I'm not a project participant, but I was peripheral both during development and early operational stages .

dylan604 3y ago
Why? We already have AWACS that essentially serves as C&C for fighter squadrons. Although, I could see how it might proceed as you suggest. Allow AWACS to direct squadrons into areas of interest and keep the bigger picture in mind while allowing the squadron level pilots to C&C the drones and focus on the details of which targets to engage. All from a nicely air conditioned "cockpit" from Sunnyvale
- nradov 3y ago
  The UCAVs produced under the Collaborative Combat Aircraft (aka "loyal wingman") program will eventually be controllable from a variety of manned platforms including E-2/E-3/E-7 AWACS aircraft. But in a potential conflict with China they will be forced to hang back out of easy data link range due to the escalating AAM threat. https://www.twz.com/massive-pl-17-air-to-air-missile-seen-on-chinese-j-16-fighters https://www.twz.com/massive-pl-17-air-to-air-missile-seen-on... Remote piloting generally isn't a viable approach for near-peer conflicts. The communication links are too vulnerable, and even when they're working the latency is too high.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Can someone explain what purpose a manned fighter jet serves in the age of UCAV? We’re not yet in the age of UCAVs that can match, tactic for tactic, a human pilot in a military context. We’re getting there. But not yet.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

AIs aren't good enough to fly it autonomously. That means it would have to be controlled, which means it would have to continuously transmit situational information back to the controller. So goodbye stealth.

Kubuxu 3y ago

1. Development started in 2000, and the first airframe (albeit with non-finalized parts) rolled off in 2006. 2. The pilot can make independent decisions even in the presence of overwhelming communication jamming.

zer00eyz 3y ago

Its a fair question. DO you really want nukes on a UAV? The last step in that has always been a human, and I would like that to remain NOT on a connection that can be remotely highjacked (even if a slim margin). The question is will we get more UCAV in the f35 role. The answer is "maybe". It's not like remote pilots on a carrier are any safer from dying in a peer engagement than if they were in the plane. In fact you may make yourself vulnerable to a decapation strike at that point. But why dont we have the pilots in, say Arizona. Well latency is a bitch, I'll leave it to Grace Hopper to explain why this is bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2uls6iIEU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2uls6iIEU

credit_guy 3y ago

Electronic warfare. Drones can be jammed. They can even be taken over, like Iran famously did in 2011 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...