4 ms·

good airline food but at a higher ticket price is not what consumers actually choose to buy. They'd rather suffer and get a discount on the ticket. They merely

by chii 3y ago

good airline food but at a higher ticket price is not what consumers actually choose to buy. They'd rather suffer and get a discount on the ticket. They merely complain about that suffering.

stephenr 3y ago
Isn't the point that food in economy class is often worse than it needs to be for the cost, and food in first class is not good enough to justify the massively increased ticket price?
- cj 3y ago
  Yes, but many don’t buy first class for the food. On a red eye (often don’t serve much food at all and if they do it’s very rushed) it might be you need to sleep for a meeting tomorrow. Or if you’re tall, leg room + basic comfort.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    As a fat and tall guy, it's all about the extra free inches of space. Worst seat is the back isle. Person in front of my pushed seat back and dislocated my knee. Short notice flying for work can really suck.
    - stephenr 3y ago
      I guess everything is relative. I'm 180cm and definitely could stand to lose some weight so I've experienced some uncomfortable flights - generally on Qantas. Surprisingly (given average national height/weight) the best legroom I've had was on Thai, followed by Singapore airlines. But then I can't compare to US airlines, which if stories are true, sound just horrific by comparison for any number of reasons before legroom is even a factor.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    That's kind of irrelevant though. The parent comment claimed that people "choose" the worse option, ignoring that the "better" option is marginally better food for usually 2x or 3x the price. I haven't flown domestically (in any country) in about 10 years. The shortest leg of recent trips will be ~2 hours, either followed or preceded by a ~7-9 hour flight. Parent's comment suggests I'm "choosing" worse food options (thankfully they are still an option, you can just choose not to eat on the plane) as if that's the only factor. It couldn't possibly be that business class on the same route is more than 4x the cost, and for a family of 3 will cost the same as a brand new small car... just to get a slightly better reheated meal. Yes the meal is in a "nicer" seat, but that isn't the argument being made in the parent comment, is it?
jevoten 3y ago
Charge $100 more for a ticket to get a slightly better sandwich, then claim the consumer chose the worse sandwich.
- tracker1 3y ago
  Given airport food court pricing you might be surprised. Plenty of people pay 3x the price for 1.8x the space.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jordanb 3y ago
Airline upgrades is a market for lemons. Even if you, say, buy an upgraded seat you may get sat next to a big guy or a rowdy child and then your seat sucks. Instead you have to pay much more (sometimes multiple times a main-cabin ticket) for the cabins up front and even then you might have to set next to a drunk businessman. If you complain you will get told there's nothing that can be done. Even if you get sat in a seat soiled with vomit or poop[1][2]. And of course you may get bumped from your flight, potentially violently[3] or have it delayed, rerouted or cancelled. So it's a market for lemons, you buy the cheapest ticket you can since the experience is likely to suck no matter what you do, and you try to endure it. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-vomit-seat/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/delta-passenger-forced-sit-seat-covered-feces-or-miss-flight-1203006 https://www.newsweek.com/delta-passenger-forced-sit-seat-cov... [3] https://qz.com/954791/everything-that-went-wrong-in-uniteds-ual-violent-passenger-deplaning-off-overbooked-flight-3441 https://qz.com/954791/everything-that-went-wrong-in-uniteds-...
- loosescrews 3y ago
  I've traveled for business a few times and a few times I got the company to pay for a first class seat up front. One time the first class cabin had a crying baby in it. Another time it was full of rowdy children. It turns out that rich people have children too. Paying for first class simply decreases your chances of dealing with such things, just like any other seat upgrade. I suspect that airlines could offer seats which guarantee that you won't be subjected to various nuisances, but choose not to.
  - j7ake 3y ago
    Why does first class decrease the chance of rowdy children? In some cities, only the rich can afford multiple kids.
    - vjulian 3y ago
      In my experience, the cultural differences due to socioeconomics explains a reduced chance of having to tolerate rowdy children. Those children in first class will be better behaved on average, or the parents will be more likely to heed complaints.
anigbrowl 3y ago
Thanks for telling me what I want, I guess? there I was, being led astray by what I thought were my own preferences.
- mannykannot 3y ago
  Our options are not determined by what we want, but by what the ticket-buying population as a whole has demonstrated is its actual (as opposed to merely stated) preferences. The marketplace for travel is not perfect, but it has never been more efficient.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    It's all bundled though. It's pretty complex to get a dirt cheap ticket, with no checked luggage, but extra leg room, no extra entertainment or extra perk but just a better meal. I see it as the same situation as cable TV, you'll never have the perfect bundle tailored to your tastes at the right price, and that's partly by design, as the company can charge more to have you pay for useless options.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Huh? Airline’s are near universally pricing their cheapest economy class tickets as unbundled as possible. But they almost all sell nicer food on board or during online check in.
tracker1 3y ago
Didn't agree so much. I generally avoid air travel, when I have to, sometimes I'll bite the bullet for first class. I'll fly Delta over the cut rate carriers. I'm not a luxury car guy... But have bought a few Buick cars along the way. So I'll pay a premium for comfort and quality in general to a point. Not everyone does every time, but there should definitely be the option.
- bruce511 3y ago
  I think you're both right. Obviously, given the success of no frills airlines, the vast majority of consumers are absolutely price focused. The shorter the route, the more evident this is. Equally some small minority (assumed from the relative tinyness of business/first class) are prepared to pay for more. Both can be true at the same time, and are. For longer flights, the desire for at least some amenities goes up. I don't expect in-flight entertainment from London to Schipol, but London to Sydney without a screen would be brutal. Personally I'm in the camp where the worst food in the terminal is still 10 times better than the food on the plane, so I eat before and after, not during. But everyone else seems to love the hour killed discovering what they're being fed. So again, room for different opinions.
- greedo 3y ago
  Wait, Buick is a luxury car now?
  - aaronax 3y ago
    Yes ("premium"), between Chevrolet and Cadillac.
    - greedo 3y ago
      Premium is definitely not luxury as you implied, and is definitely not a premium automaker in any sense of the word.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    I said I don't do luxury... But Buick is generally a step up. Much like day Red Lobster is a steep up from Long John Silvers. It's not luxury but you are paying for and getting more.
addicted 3y ago
Your answer is the only correct answer. The original article might have been correct for half a century ago but has nothing to do with today where food is universally bad on airplanes across the world with the only possible exception being airlines like Emirates whose business model is not to run an airline but to get people to fly to their host country.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ern 3y ago
Maybe that was the case pre-pandemic, but I shelled out for Business Class on a long-haul international flight, and it was worth it, and I'm not the only one: https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/travel/pointy-end-shake-up-how-first-class-business-premium-will-look-soon-20230606-p5de9o https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/travel/pointy-end-shake-... Maybe we'll return to looking for lower costs, but an aging and wealthier world might prize comfort more than it did in the past.
SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
The fact that airlines chose this to compete on suggests they in fact believed that this was something that consumers at least value to a higher degree than some other amenities. Which suggests they would probably have price sensitivity to it at some level.

by chii 3y ago

good airline food but at a higher ticket price is not what consumers actually choose to buy. They'd rather suffer and get a discount on the ticket. They merely complain about that suffering.

stephenr 3y ago

Isn't the point that food in economy class is often worse than it needs to be for the cost, and food in first class is not good enough to justify the massively increased ticket price?

cj 3y ago
Yes, but many don’t buy first class for the food. On a red eye (often don’t serve much food at all and if they do it’s very rushed) it might be you need to sleep for a meeting tomorrow. Or if you’re tall, leg room + basic comfort.
- tracker1 3y ago
  As a fat and tall guy, it's all about the extra free inches of space. Worst seat is the back isle. Person in front of my pushed seat back and dislocated my knee. Short notice flying for work can really suck.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    I guess everything is relative. I'm 180cm and definitely could stand to lose some weight so I've experienced some uncomfortable flights - generally on Qantas. Surprisingly (given average national height/weight) the best legroom I've had was on Thai, followed by Singapore airlines. But then I can't compare to US airlines, which if stories are true, sound just horrific by comparison for any number of reasons before legroom is even a factor.
- stephenr 3y ago
  That's kind of irrelevant though. The parent comment claimed that people "choose" the worse option, ignoring that the "better" option is marginally better food for usually 2x or 3x the price. I haven't flown domestically (in any country) in about 10 years. The shortest leg of recent trips will be ~2 hours, either followed or preceded by a ~7-9 hour flight. Parent's comment suggests I'm "choosing" worse food options (thankfully they are still an option, you can just choose not to eat on the plane) as if that's the only factor. It couldn't possibly be that business class on the same route is more than 4x the cost, and for a family of 3 will cost the same as a brand new small car... just to get a slightly better reheated meal. Yes the meal is in a "nicer" seat, but that isn't the argument being made in the parent comment, is it?

jevoten 3y ago

Charge $100 more for a ticket to get a slightly better sandwich, then claim the consumer chose the worse sandwich.

tracker1 3y ago
Given airport food court pricing you might be surprised. Plenty of people pay 3x the price for 1.8x the space.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

jordanb 3y ago

Airline upgrades is a market for lemons. Even if you, say, buy an upgraded seat you may get sat next to a big guy or a rowdy child and then your seat sucks. Instead you have to pay much more (sometimes multiple times a main-cabin ticket) for the cabins up front and even then you might have to set next to a drunk businessman. If you complain you will get told there's nothing that can be done. Even if you get sat in a seat soiled with vomit or poop[1][2]. And of course you may get bumped from your flight, potentially violently[3] or have it delayed, rerouted or cancelled. So it's a market for lemons, you buy the cheapest ticket you can since the experience is likely to suck no matter what you do, and you try to endure it. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-vomit-seat/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/delta-passenger-forced-sit-seat-covered-feces-or-miss-flight-1203006 https://www.newsweek.com/delta-passenger-forced-sit-seat-cov... [3] https://qz.com/954791/everything-that-went-wrong-in-uniteds-ual-violent-passenger-deplaning-off-overbooked-flight-3441 https://qz.com/954791/everything-that-went-wrong-in-uniteds-...

loosescrews 3y ago
I've traveled for business a few times and a few times I got the company to pay for a first class seat up front. One time the first class cabin had a crying baby in it. Another time it was full of rowdy children. It turns out that rich people have children too. Paying for first class simply decreases your chances of dealing with such things, just like any other seat upgrade. I suspect that airlines could offer seats which guarantee that you won't be subjected to various nuisances, but choose not to.
- j7ake 3y ago
  Why does first class decrease the chance of rowdy children? In some cities, only the rich can afford multiple kids.
  - vjulian 3y ago
    In my experience, the cultural differences due to socioeconomics explains a reduced chance of having to tolerate rowdy children. Those children in first class will be better behaved on average, or the parents will be more likely to heed complaints.

anigbrowl 3y ago

Thanks for telling me what I want, I guess? there I was, being led astray by what I thought were my own preferences.

mannykannot 3y ago
Our options are not determined by what we want, but by what the ticket-buying population as a whole has demonstrated is its actual (as opposed to merely stated) preferences. The marketplace for travel is not perfect, but it has never been more efficient.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  It's all bundled though. It's pretty complex to get a dirt cheap ticket, with no checked luggage, but extra leg room, no extra entertainment or extra perk but just a better meal. I see it as the same situation as cable TV, you'll never have the perfect bundle tailored to your tastes at the right price, and that's partly by design, as the company can charge more to have you pay for useless options.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Huh? Airline’s are near universally pricing their cheapest economy class tickets as unbundled as possible. But they almost all sell nicer food on board or during online check in.

tracker1 3y ago

Didn't agree so much. I generally avoid air travel, when I have to, sometimes I'll bite the bullet for first class. I'll fly Delta over the cut rate carriers. I'm not a luxury car guy... But have bought a few Buick cars along the way. So I'll pay a premium for comfort and quality in general to a point. Not everyone does every time, but there should definitely be the option.

bruce511 3y ago
I think you're both right. Obviously, given the success of no frills airlines, the vast majority of consumers are absolutely price focused. The shorter the route, the more evident this is. Equally some small minority (assumed from the relative tinyness of business/first class) are prepared to pay for more. Both can be true at the same time, and are. For longer flights, the desire for at least some amenities goes up. I don't expect in-flight entertainment from London to Schipol, but London to Sydney without a screen would be brutal. Personally I'm in the camp where the worst food in the terminal is still 10 times better than the food on the plane, so I eat before and after, not during. But everyone else seems to love the hour killed discovering what they're being fed. So again, room for different opinions.
greedo 3y ago
Wait, Buick is a luxury car now?
- aaronax 3y ago
  Yes ("premium"), between Chevrolet and Cadillac.
  - greedo 3y ago
    Premium is definitely not luxury as you implied, and is definitely not a premium automaker in any sense of the word.
- tracker1 3y ago
  I said I don't do luxury... But Buick is generally a step up. Much like day Red Lobster is a steep up from Long John Silvers. It's not luxury but you are paying for and getting more.

addicted 3y ago

Your answer is the only correct answer. The original article might have been correct for half a century ago but has nothing to do with today where food is universally bad on airplanes across the world with the only possible exception being airlines like Emirates whose business model is not to run an airline but to get people to fly to their host country.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ern 3y ago

Maybe that was the case pre-pandemic, but I shelled out for Business Class on a long-haul international flight, and it was worth it, and I'm not the only one: https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/travel/pointy-end-shake-up-how-first-class-business-premium-will-look-soon-20230606-p5de9o https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/travel/pointy-end-shake-... Maybe we'll return to looking for lower costs, but an aging and wealthier world might prize comfort more than it did in the past.

SuperNinKenDo 3y ago

The fact that airlines chose this to compete on suggests they in fact believed that this was something that consumers at least value to a higher degree than some other amenities. Which suggests they would probably have price sensitivity to it at some level.