4 ms·

It's not my definition. I doubt coffee counts though. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28322183/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28322183/ Also, I never meant

It's not my definition. I doubt coffee counts though. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28322183/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28322183/ Also, I never meant to imply there were conclusive negative effects of guar gum. I don't know! I do know it's an entirely unnecessary ingredient in hummus, so why would you want something that unneeded? Glass beads are probably more inert, but I still wouldn't eat them if I had a choice.

vel0city 3y ago
> I do know it's an entirely unnecessary ingredient in hummus, so why would you want something that unneeded? Hummus itself is entirely unnecessary for humans to consume. Why would I even consider eating it? Maybe because it tastes good and has a texture people enjoy? Maybe guar gum improves the texture to the food? I don't know, I'm not really a big fan of hummus, so I can't speak to whether or not guar gum makes it better or worse. But I imagine the people selling it determined people tend to enjoy the hummus with the guar gum more. They didn't just include it in there because they're an evil megacorporation out to control the world by adulterating hummus with guar gum, they put it in there because in the end they thought they'd sell more hummus. If the yardstick of what we should eat is based entirely of if its "necessary", most things people generally consider fine wouldn't make the cut. Once again, its not necessary for me to put cinnamon in my oatmeal, should I stop doing that? Its not necessary for me to put red pepper flakes in my pasta sauce, should I stop doing that? You can make a cake without egg in it, its not "necessary". It won't be the same as a cake with egg in it, but it can still be something sweet, kind of bready, and edible. But I'll continue to put egg in most of my cakes even though its not strictly "necessary" to make something edible. From your article trying to define ultra-processed: > The term “ultra-processed” was coined to refer to industrial formulations manufactured from substances derived from foods or synthesized from other organic sources. They typically contain little or no whole foods, are ready-to-consume or heat up, and are fatty, salty or sugary and depleted in dietary fibre, protein, various micronutrients and other bioactive compounds. Isn't pre-roasted, pre-ground coffee beans made in a factory "industrial formulations manufactured from substances derived from foods"? They're not whole foods anymore, they're ready to consume or heat up, you're brewing it to get the fats out of it, depleted of the original fiber, doesn't have anywhere near the protein content of the original bean, and roasting destroys a lot of the original micronutrients of the original bean. Sure seems to me roasted ground coffee beans meet the definition of ultra-processed laid out by your source.
- walterbell 3y ago
  Unlike a printed dictionary constrained by physical paper, we now have digital publishing where every product, ingredient, additive and health consequence can have their own digital database definition. Instead of debating abstract semantic categories like "processed" and using random items to support or negate specific claims, we can now aggregate data directly against digital identifiers for physical items. GroceryDB is a research baby step that illustrates what can be done to augment consumer decision making. The processed-food industry can create their own ICantBelieveItsNotProcessedDB to annotate products and ingredients with the benefits of industrial processing. Over time, food consumers can make local purchasing choices after human review of available data on food chains and health consequences.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    But at least in the case of guar gum in hummus it seems like it's picking and choosing what is a "processed food" rather arbitrarily. Would hummus with cocoa power be rated as high as hummus with guar gum? What makes pure coca powder different from guar gum? What makes pre-packaged hummus different from just always being considered a processed food?? Practically all commercially packaged hummus is created through an "industrial process". Isn't it then all highly processed? It's applying an index to things without even really explaining why or what that index really means. What are the actual health impacts of hummus with guar gum versus hummus without it? It's ultimately telling us next to nothing other than highlighting some ingredients the maintainers don't like while ignoring ingredients they do like, seemingly very arbitrarily. Does the index define roasted and ground coffee as a highly processed food? Why or why not?
    - walterbell 3y ago
      > some ingredients the maintainers don't like From the Washington Post article above, you can add these names: Kevin Hall, Scientist National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Dariush Mozaffarian, Cardiologist Dean, Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy Tufts University Carlos A. Monteiro, Professor of Nutrition and Public health School of Public Health University of Sao Paulo, Brazil

vel0city 3y ago

> I do know it's an entirely unnecessary ingredient in hummus, so why would you want something that unneeded? Hummus itself is entirely unnecessary for humans to consume. Why would I even consider eating it? Maybe because it tastes good and has a texture people enjoy? Maybe guar gum improves the texture to the food? I don't know, I'm not really a big fan of hummus, so I can't speak to whether or not guar gum makes it better or worse. But I imagine the people selling it determined people tend to enjoy the hummus with the guar gum more. They didn't just include it in there because they're an evil megacorporation out to control the world by adulterating hummus with guar gum, they put it in there because in the end they thought they'd sell more hummus. If the yardstick of what we should eat is based entirely of if its "necessary", most things people generally consider fine wouldn't make the cut. Once again, its not necessary for me to put cinnamon in my oatmeal, should I stop doing that? Its not necessary for me to put red pepper flakes in my pasta sauce, should I stop doing that? You can make a cake without egg in it, its not "necessary". It won't be the same as a cake with egg in it, but it can still be something sweet, kind of bready, and edible. But I'll continue to put egg in most of my cakes even though its not strictly "necessary" to make something edible. From your article trying to define ultra-processed: > The term “ultra-processed” was coined to refer to industrial formulations manufactured from substances derived from foods or synthesized from other organic sources. They typically contain little or no whole foods, are ready-to-consume or heat up, and are fatty, salty or sugary and depleted in dietary fibre, protein, various micronutrients and other bioactive compounds. Isn't pre-roasted, pre-ground coffee beans made in a factory "industrial formulations manufactured from substances derived from foods"? They're not whole foods anymore, they're ready to consume or heat up, you're brewing it to get the fats out of it, depleted of the original fiber, doesn't have anywhere near the protein content of the original bean, and roasting destroys a lot of the original micronutrients of the original bean. Sure seems to me roasted ground coffee beans meet the definition of ultra-processed laid out by your source.

walterbell 3y ago
Unlike a printed dictionary constrained by physical paper, we now have digital publishing where every product, ingredient, additive and health consequence can have their own digital database definition. Instead of debating abstract semantic categories like "processed" and using random items to support or negate specific claims, we can now aggregate data directly against digital identifiers for physical items. GroceryDB is a research baby step that illustrates what can be done to augment consumer decision making. The processed-food industry can create their own ICantBelieveItsNotProcessedDB to annotate products and ingredients with the benefits of industrial processing. Over time, food consumers can make local purchasing choices after human review of available data on food chains and health consequences.
- vel0city 3y ago
  But at least in the case of guar gum in hummus it seems like it's picking and choosing what is a "processed food" rather arbitrarily. Would hummus with cocoa power be rated as high as hummus with guar gum? What makes pure coca powder different from guar gum? What makes pre-packaged hummus different from just always being considered a processed food?? Practically all commercially packaged hummus is created through an "industrial process". Isn't it then all highly processed? It's applying an index to things without even really explaining why or what that index really means. What are the actual health impacts of hummus with guar gum versus hummus without it? It's ultimately telling us next to nothing other than highlighting some ingredients the maintainers don't like while ignoring ingredients they do like, seemingly very arbitrarily. Does the index define roasted and ground coffee as a highly processed food? Why or why not?
  - walterbell 3y ago
    > some ingredients the maintainers don't like From the Washington Post article above, you can add these names: Kevin Hall, Scientist National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Dariush Mozaffarian, Cardiologist Dean, Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy Tufts University Carlos A. Monteiro, Professor of Nutrition and Public health School of Public Health University of Sao Paulo, Brazil