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How can anybody even use BitCoin without mixing? Isn't this an equivalent of giving everybody all over the world permanent read-only access to your bank account

How can anybody even use BitCoin without mixing? Isn't this an equivalent of giving everybody all over the world permanent read-only access to your bank account?

earnesti 3y ago
How do you know if your counterparty is mixing or not?
mrtksn 3y ago
Not really, for most people bitcoin is the number in the exchange they use. That’s pretty private. Also, acts as a mixer even if you end up storing your coins locally.
- victorbjorklund 3y ago
  But isnt that only for people who just speculate in bitcoin? People who use bitcoin to pay for everyday stuff will reveal it... or have we given up pretending people use bitcoin for everyday use?
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    > People who use bitcoin to pay for everyday stuff will reveal it Good thing that there's no such people :)
    - sMarsIntruder 3y ago
      How’s that a “good thing”? I mean, if you love living within the hidden taxation called inflation of the fiat world, feel free.
  - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
    > or have we given up pretending people use bitcoin for everyday use? I don't think I've heard anyone pretending this in the last 10 years.
    - oarsinsync 3y ago
      Spend some time with lightning network advocates and you’ll find plenty of people who advocate using bitcoin lightning for everyday use
      - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
        Advocating using, sure. But claiming they use it?
        bb88 3y ago
        Well for the past decade you'll find people on here spouting BTC without acknowledging they had BTC. Anything that happened to BTC was "good" for BTC.
        bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
        Are they claiming they use it?
        oarsinsync 3y ago
        Yes, that’s part of their advocacy. “I do this so I don’t see why everyone else can’t too”, blind to how insane the on-ramp is.
  - Ferret7446 3y ago
    You still need to do quite a bit of tracing; only the people who actually go digging and have access to internal data records of the KYC endpoints would be able to trace it. For the uninformed, all transactions post to a separate address, so you'd have to correlate which addresses seem to be used together in various other transactions to tie transactions back to a single "wallet". (Ackchyually that's not entirely true; there are some low level details regarding UTXOs and HD wallets, but in practice you can assume it works like that). And I don't think anyone (who is worth listening to) is advocating BTC for trivial transactions; it has already solidly cemented its role as a "wire" service for larger transfers.
    - qwerty456127 3y ago
      > And I don't think anyone (who is worth listening to) is advocating BTC for trivial transactions; it has already solidly cemented its role as a "wire" service for larger transfers. LTC apparently seems "a better BTC" for trivial transaction. Also Monero which supposedly doesn't even need mixing. Why do people even care using BTC which needs mixing when there are Monero and ZCash?
ur-whale 3y ago
> Isn't this an equivalent of giving everybody all over the world permanent read-only access to your bank account? If you read early Bitcoin literature, you'll discover a number of very clear and vocal warnings against "address re-use". The protocol was designed so that addies should not ever be used more than once or it would introduce vulnerabilities. It's indeed kind of like giving everyone permanent read-only access to your bank account. Except that, if Bitcoin was used as intended, there would only ever be one transaction per account and there would be a new account created for each new transaction, so who cares about the reveal. It's too bad Satoshi didn't enforce the "one new addie for every new transaction rule) that at the code level (I guess the computational burden might have been an additional problem to solve).
marzipanWhale 3y ago
I've used bitcoin in the past and never saw the reason for mixing. I don't really care if people track down my purchases. Anonymity is not why I use bitcoin.

How can anybody even use BitCoin without mixing? Isn't this an equivalent of giving everybody all over the world permanent read-only access to your bank account?

earnesti 3y ago

How do you know if your counterparty is mixing or not?

mrtksn 3y ago

Not really, for most people bitcoin is the number in the exchange they use. That’s pretty private. Also, acts as a mixer even if you end up storing your coins locally.

victorbjorklund 3y ago
But isnt that only for people who just speculate in bitcoin? People who use bitcoin to pay for everyday stuff will reveal it... or have we given up pretending people use bitcoin for everyday use?
- mrtksn 3y ago
  > People who use bitcoin to pay for everyday stuff will reveal it Good thing that there's no such people :)
  - sMarsIntruder 3y ago
    How’s that a “good thing”? I mean, if you love living within the hidden taxation called inflation of the fiat world, feel free.
- bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
  > or have we given up pretending people use bitcoin for everyday use? I don't think I've heard anyone pretending this in the last 10 years.
  - oarsinsync 3y ago
    Spend some time with lightning network advocates and you’ll find plenty of people who advocate using bitcoin lightning for everyday use
    - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
      Advocating using, sure. But claiming they use it?
      - bb88 3y ago
        Well for the past decade you'll find people on here spouting BTC without acknowledging they had BTC. Anything that happened to BTC was "good" for BTC.
        bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
        Are they claiming they use it?
      - oarsinsync 3y ago
        Yes, that’s part of their advocacy. “I do this so I don’t see why everyone else can’t too”, blind to how insane the on-ramp is.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  You still need to do quite a bit of tracing; only the people who actually go digging and have access to internal data records of the KYC endpoints would be able to trace it. For the uninformed, all transactions post to a separate address, so you'd have to correlate which addresses seem to be used together in various other transactions to tie transactions back to a single "wallet". (Ackchyually that's not entirely true; there are some low level details regarding UTXOs and HD wallets, but in practice you can assume it works like that). And I don't think anyone (who is worth listening to) is advocating BTC for trivial transactions; it has already solidly cemented its role as a "wire" service for larger transfers.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    > And I don't think anyone (who is worth listening to) is advocating BTC for trivial transactions; it has already solidly cemented its role as a "wire" service for larger transfers. LTC apparently seems "a better BTC" for trivial transaction. Also Monero which supposedly doesn't even need mixing. Why do people even care using BTC which needs mixing when there are Monero and ZCash?

ur-whale 3y ago

> Isn't this an equivalent of giving everybody all over the world permanent read-only access to your bank account? If you read early Bitcoin literature, you'll discover a number of very clear and vocal warnings against "address re-use". The protocol was designed so that addies should not ever be used more than once or it would introduce vulnerabilities. It's indeed kind of like giving everyone permanent read-only access to your bank account. Except that, if Bitcoin was used as intended, there would only ever be one transaction per account and there would be a new account created for each new transaction, so who cares about the reveal. It's too bad Satoshi didn't enforce the "one new addie for every new transaction rule) that at the code level (I guess the computational burden might have been an additional problem to solve).

marzipanWhale 3y ago

I've used bitcoin in the past and never saw the reason for mixing. I don't really care if people track down my purchases. Anonymity is not why I use bitcoin.