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> The notification included a copy of the subpoena, which warned X not to tell Clancy of its existence. "You are not to disclose or notify any customer or third

> The notification included a copy of the subpoena, which warned X not to tell Clancy of its existence. "You are not to disclose or notify any customer or third party of the existence of this subpoena or that records were provided pursuant to this subpoena," the document read. > But X, following its own corporate policy, told Clancy anyway, and suggested he might want to get some legal representation to fight the subpoena, recommending the American Civil Liberties Union. That's actually the first decent thing I've heard about x since the rename. Good job! (I assume there won't be any penalties for this action given that it was warrantless in the first place.)

kevingadd 3y ago
I can imagine some companies being afraid of pissing off the NYPD. If you have a presence in new york, a police department has lots of tools at their disposal to make your life miserable even if you haven't violated the law
Scoundreller 3y ago
It only works if all of the platforms you use do this. > As my lawyer put it: “Sounds like you could have a first amendment right to quash the subpoena”. Cool, let’s go. > Surprisingly, it worked! I think it cost around $7,000 but the subpoena was quashed > [While] Google was nice enough to let me know there was a subpoena for my account data but guess what? Nobody else even bothered to tell me. And by nobody else I mean: Paypal, eBay, 3 domain registrars, merch makers, VPN providers, and every other online service I had used with that email in the last five years. They had all been subpoenaed and happily handed it over without even letting me know and it works that way even to this day. https://anons.ca/p/i-used-to-operate-a-dss-hacking-network/ https://anons.ca/p/i-used-to-operate-a-dss-hacking-network/
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > It only works if all of the platforms you use do this Why? It obviously works better if more people do this. But the single notice is still working to some degree.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Depends on your threat model & consequences. Avoiding doxxing means you need more bulletproofing. For OP, Twitter might have been the holy grail and they’re now cool, but maybe not if there’s $x others that have already rolled over.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Twitter might have been the holy grail and they’re now cool, but maybe not if there’s $x others that have already rolled over. This is totally different from "it only works if all of the platforms you use do this." That's a collective action problem. One which does not present itself in this case, where marginal actions produce marginal benefits. What you're now saying is the marginal actions (and thus benefits) may be bounded. Which, sure. But that also doesn't change if all the platforms "do this," but boundedly.
- caseysoftware 3y ago
  No, it doesn't take coordinated effort. If one company stands up and says "no" and then discloses to the subject, it both raises the risk of exposure on other government entities considering the same and increases the likelihood of another company opposing it next time. Both are wins to build upon.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mc32 3y ago
I’m very happy to hear X did the right thing by its users and by the law. One can only hope we have more Orgs like and Qwest (the latter one was taken down but the d gov in retribution). Congress needs to let the patriot act lapse. We’re not in an emergency anymore, despite the rhetoric -it’s been over 20 years!
- Kamq 3y ago
  Dude, the patriot act expired back in March of 2020. Trump threatened to veto it and everyone kinda just shrugged and let it expire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act#Reauthorizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act#Reauthorizations (scroll to the bottom of the section)
  - mc32 3y ago
    It's great Trump let it lapse, but there are lots of provisions still in place, such as being able to label political protestors as domestic terrorists --any of the pro or anti Hamas/Israel protesters can be labeled as such if they want to. Spying on Americans is till permissible. DHS is still in effect. Lots of added bureaucracy from that time is still there. Do we need all this overhead? The bureaucracy just keeps on growing. Now, that's not to say some things are not necessary. We need to surveil foreign terrorists and also kerb money laundering, etc. but it should all be above board using legitimate warrants and not secret subpoenas.
    - Kamq 3y ago
      Sure, but you specifically called out the patriot act, which hasn't been a thing for 4 years.
autoexec 3y ago
I agree. I assume that twitter doesn't do that for every subpoena they get. For some situations notifying a user that they are under investigation by police would be disastrous. That means they're likely carefully evaluating the legal requests they get instead of leaving the process largely automated or rubber stamping everything that comes though. The willingness to accept possible repercussions by informing users in some cases is really admirable.

kevingadd 3y ago

I can imagine some companies being afraid of pissing off the NYPD. If you have a presence in new york, a police department has lots of tools at their disposal to make your life miserable even if you haven't violated the law

Scoundreller 3y ago

It only works if all of the platforms you use do this. > As my lawyer put it: “Sounds like you could have a first amendment right to quash the subpoena”. Cool, let’s go. > Surprisingly, it worked! I think it cost around $7,000 but the subpoena was quashed > [While] Google was nice enough to let me know there was a subpoena for my account data but guess what? Nobody else even bothered to tell me. And by nobody else I mean: Paypal, eBay, 3 domain registrars, merch makers, VPN providers, and every other online service I had used with that email in the last five years. They had all been subpoenaed and happily handed it over without even letting me know and it works that way even to this day. https://anons.ca/p/i-used-to-operate-a-dss-hacking-network/ https://anons.ca/p/i-used-to-operate-a-dss-hacking-network/

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> It only works if all of the platforms you use do this Why? It obviously works better if more people do this. But the single notice is still working to some degree.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Depends on your threat model & consequences. Avoiding doxxing means you need more bulletproofing. For OP, Twitter might have been the holy grail and they’re now cool, but maybe not if there’s $x others that have already rolled over.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Twitter might have been the holy grail and they’re now cool, but maybe not if there’s $x others that have already rolled over. This is totally different from "it only works if all of the platforms you use do this." That's a collective action problem. One which does not present itself in this case, where marginal actions produce marginal benefits. What you're now saying is the marginal actions (and thus benefits) may be bounded. Which, sure. But that also doesn't change if all the platforms "do this," but boundedly.
caseysoftware 3y ago
No, it doesn't take coordinated effort. If one company stands up and says "no" and then discloses to the subject, it both raises the risk of exposure on other government entities considering the same and increases the likelihood of another company opposing it next time. Both are wins to build upon.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mc32 3y ago

I’m very happy to hear X did the right thing by its users and by the law. One can only hope we have more Orgs like and Qwest (the latter one was taken down but the d gov in retribution). Congress needs to let the patriot act lapse. We’re not in an emergency anymore, despite the rhetoric -it’s been over 20 years!

Kamq 3y ago
Dude, the patriot act expired back in March of 2020. Trump threatened to veto it and everyone kinda just shrugged and let it expire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act#Reauthorizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act#Reauthorizations (scroll to the bottom of the section)
- mc32 3y ago
  It's great Trump let it lapse, but there are lots of provisions still in place, such as being able to label political protestors as domestic terrorists --any of the pro or anti Hamas/Israel protesters can be labeled as such if they want to. Spying on Americans is till permissible. DHS is still in effect. Lots of added bureaucracy from that time is still there. Do we need all this overhead? The bureaucracy just keeps on growing. Now, that's not to say some things are not necessary. We need to surveil foreign terrorists and also kerb money laundering, etc. but it should all be above board using legitimate warrants and not secret subpoenas.
  - Kamq 3y ago
    Sure, but you specifically called out the patriot act, which hasn't been a thing for 4 years.

autoexec 3y ago

I agree. I assume that twitter doesn't do that for every subpoena they get. For some situations notifying a user that they are under investigation by police would be disastrous. That means they're likely carefully evaluating the legal requests they get instead of leaving the process largely automated or rubber stamping everything that comes though. The willingness to accept possible repercussions by informing users in some cases is really admirable.