7 ms·

The terms and conditions for web distribution [0] are concerning to say the least. In short, you have to have at least one million first installs annually on iO

The terms and conditions for web distribution [0] are concerning to say the least. In short, you have to have at least one million first installs annually on iOS to even qualify, in addition to other terms such as "good standing in the Apple Developer Program for two continuous years or more". I doubt Epic and the like would be considered in good standing as far as Apple is concerned. Also, quote unquote, developers will pay a core technology fee of €0.50 for each first annual install over one million in the past 12 months. I don't see this ending well for Apple in any measure. It seems they think the EU lawmakers will just go away if they stick their fingers in their ears hard enough, but that's not how the EU works. The gears of EU turn slowly, but grind finely. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/web-distribution-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/web-distribution-eu/

MatthiasPortzel 3y ago
They’re the same terms as those required for an alternative app marketplace.
- rekoil 3y ago
  Not exactly, looks like there's no requirement to have €1,000,000 in your bank account like you need for alternative app marketplaces.
  - concinds 3y ago
    They dropped that too. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/05/apple-tweaks-eu-app-store-business-terms/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/05/apple-tweaks-eu-app-sto...
concinds 3y ago
In other words, you're only "eligible" for web distribution if you meet the threshold to pay the Core Technology Fee tax? (on top of the other requirements). Sounds convenient.
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago
  Conveniently non-compliant.
- christkv 3y ago
  Seems pretty much written to keep Epic, Valve and others off the phone i imagine.
captainmuon 3y ago
That's probably to prevent the most obvious workaround of creating a new shell company for every million users. (Which would be not so ridiculous as it sounds, there is plenty of software you cannot buy directly but only through a reseller. Epic could become a pure b2b shop on paper and sell Fortnite clients to regional distributors, or something like that.) Some time ago somebody made an alternative App Store for emulators, https://altstore.io https://altstore.io . I think it works by having users get a developer's certificate and installing the apps like an in-development app. I think it would be really neat if this model got tested in court and declared completely legal.
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago
  > That's probably to prevent the most obvious workaround of creating a new shell company for every million users. Which would be all around moot because the fee itself is illegal.
  - Someone 3y ago
    > Which would be all around moot because the fee itself is illegal I haven’t seen any statement in any jurisdiction by lawmakers or judges that supports that claim. It also would, to me, feel inconsistent with the rulings I read about: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision: “Rogers found in favor of Apple on nine of ten counts brought up against them in the case, including Epic's charges related to Apple's 30% revenue cut” - https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitlement/ https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl...: “Consistent with the interim relief ruling of the Rotterdam district court, dating apps that are granted an entitlement to link out or use a third-party in-app payment provider will pay Apple a commission on transactions. Apple will reduce its commission by 3% on the price paid by the user, net of value-added taxes. This is a reduced rate that excludes value related to payment processing and related activities” What did I miss?
    - layer8 3y ago
      You may have missed the “free of charge” wording in the DMA.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
~20% of Apple's total earnings (not revenue) could come from the App Store: https://deepwatermgmt.com/apples-app-store-is-an-important-part-of-its-profitability-and-its-not-changing/ https://deepwatermgmt.com/apples-app-store-is-an-important-p... When you look at the multiple on services - the App Store could easily be >40% of Apple's total market cap. They're going to stick their fingers in their ears as long as they can to defend that. You don't give up the golden goose. You defend it.
- delfinom 3y ago
  Good thing goose is eaten in Europe traditionally.
  - toyg 3y ago
    It's not even the harshest thing we do to that sort of bird. Patè des californiens is going to be delicious.
- itopaloglu83 3y ago
  [flagged]
- loceng 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - youngtaff 3y ago
    What’s the woke culture mind virus?
    - loceng 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - layer8 3y ago
        But human life doesn’t.
andy_ppp 3y ago
Charging per install rather than per subscription is hilarious, almost as if all of this is designed to wind up the EU and cause the largest possible fine.
- rchaud 3y ago
  It's designed to sow confusion among the big vendors in the app store driving most of the revenue, and keep them walled in where it's 'safe'.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  It's per year, not per install. All subsequent installs/updates in that year do not incur additional charges. > "Developers will pay a CTF of €0.50 for each first annual install over one million in the past 12 months."
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    That really doesn't change their point. It's only slightly less ridiculous, but still completely unworkable and obviously against the spirit of the regulation. I say spirit of the regulation because I'm not a lawyer and don't want to make absolute claims about the law as written, and I trust the EU to close any loopholes that may arise.
    - andy_ppp 3y ago
      I’ve actually come to the conclusion Apple has stopped behaving rationally here, they are behaving quite erratically.
rmbyrro 3y ago
It's sad to see Apple adopting kind of an Oracle way of business. "Kind of"... They were screwed by Microsoft in the past. And now they're the ones screwing every single small and mid-sized software shop everywhere. When will we stop buying their products?
- pmontra 3y ago
  I never bought an Apple product. Before the iPhone, because I never liked the Mac UI with the bar at the top and the apps menu over there and I didn't need an iPod. After the iPhone, a personal boycott because of the walled garden. It was not immediately clear what the endgame would be but it was pretty clear that this level of control by a single corporation on a large part of the world is a bad thing.
  - 6510 3y ago
    There is no software to be written for me on this platform and it's growing. People who do write for it live in this electronic ghetto regardless of their size. The customer isn't king, she is a serf.
- RamiAwar 3y ago
  Never buying an apple product again personally, or building ios apps.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dev1ycan 3y ago
  speak for yourself I've had two apple products, ever, an Ipod touch 4 (trash) and an ipod nano 7th gen, the nano was good but for music playback, I'd never get an iphone, I'm not down to lock myself down to their terrible ecosystem
- jajko 3y ago
  When? When Apple products will stop being perceived as something better than competition. They somehow created the image that they are some sort of luxury, but if that was ever an actual case its long gone. Don't take me wrong, its a fine long term marketing performance and I respect them for it, but lets be a bit more technical and less emotional here. Some phones are way more expensive than A top line, have massive cameras, better screens, batteries (I mean real life, one of failures on A side for first decade), better integration with rest of the electronic world (like streaming fullhd tv from phone to any TV I saw so far, or having mouse&keyboard desktop on big screen via single USB-C cable out of box, or very good pen within the phone - image editing goes to another level). Plus you have much bigger variety, anything from 50$. And they are open, not unimportant aspect not only for many HN users. That doesn't mean they do bad products, in contrary. But emotions aside, its now just another set of products with personally weird philosophy, even weirder emotional fanbase and just a much more closed ecosystem.
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
> The gears of EU turn slowly, but grind finely. What would happen if big companies simply refuse to pay? Will EU put the European employees in jail? Would they put Americans in their jail? Will they do DNS block? Credit card block? Remove apple products from physical store? Many of the EU countries like Germany are export driven and certainly they don't want to close the market.
- mithras 3y ago
  For Apple they could just ban iPhones from the market, that should be enough to make Apple comply.
- EraYaN 3y ago
  Apple has so much stuff and money in the EU, that there will be plenty to take. Only recently have the started to take back some of the funds from Ireland. Apple would be in a pretty bad place if those accounts were all seized, not in the last place because it would block all transactions including customer ones, ones to may for servers, rent etc. Apple might look stupid but they aren't that stupid.
  - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
    Can't they take all the money out a month before they are planning to refuse to pay fine? I am pretty sure EU could never block Apple's fund unless they want to totally remove all the business from EU.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - selectodude 3y ago
    The EU won’t even seize Russia’s assets. You think they’ll start a shitstorm with the united states?
    - asadotzler 3y ago
kebman 3y ago
"The gears of EU turn slowly, but grind finely." QFT.
cm2012 3y ago
Edit: Removed, I used too harsh language for Apple
- dang 3y ago
  Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. We're trying for something a bit different here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
CM30 3y ago
Agreed. Apple's stubbornness and clear attempts to retaliate against everyone for these changes are not going to go well for them, and they need to realise that at some point. It's genuinely shocking how petty the company is acting with these changes, and how obvious their attempts at only doing the bare minimum to follow the law are.
- toyg 3y ago
  Remember when Apple taunted bigger companies to sue them, in the name of technological freedom? Pepperidge Farm remembers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi So sad to see them on the other side of the table now, using every trick in the book to screw over the entire sector. Mr. Cook, tear down this wall!
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The list of companies bigger than Apple is now very small. All that’s left, really, are countries.
cynicalsecurity 3y ago
These are some cult-like requirements. The term "good standing" comes not from business, it comes directly from the domain of authoritarian-destructive cults.
- leptons 3y ago
  I'm not sure why the EU would let Apple make up the terms of their surrender. It's like letting a convicted felon decide on their punishment.
- serial_dev 3y ago
  It's mobspeak.
- samatman 3y ago
  Nonsense. The term "customer in good standing" has a well-established legal tradition in contract law. You're just making stuff up. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/customer-in-good-standing https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/customer-in-good-stand...
  - cynicalsecurity 3y ago
    No business is using this term in real life, but it's heavily used by cults.
    - Aloisius 3y ago
      Uh. I assure you, the term is widely used by companies and governments. Source: "Your PG&E residential account is in good standing at the time of the outage and at the time PG&E issues payment" - https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-safety/outage-preparedness-and-support/general-outage-resources/outage-compensation-programs.html https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-safety/outage-preparednes... "Must remain on qualifying service in good standing for duration of EIP agreement." - https://www.t-mobile.com/accessories/category/mounts-docks-and-stands https://www.t-mobile.com/accessories/category/mounts-docks-a... "Request for Certificate of Good Standing" - https://cand.uscourts.gov/attorneys/request-for-certificate-of-good-standing/ https://cand.uscourts.gov/attorneys/request-for-certificate-... "Tangerine may reject the overpayment and your Account may not be considered to be in Good Standing." - https://www.tangerine.ca/en/legal/credit-card-cardholder-agreement https://www.tangerine.ca/en/legal/credit-card-cardholder-agr... "Use this form to pay the United States Tax Court to order a Certificate of Good Standing" - https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/802285219 https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/802285219 "Your account must be in good standing to sign up" - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/899060/your-account-must-be-in-good-standing-to-sign-up https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/899060/y... "To maintain status as a member in good standing, SCCs must notify the SCC program manager of any changes to information collected to administer the program." - https://www.sw.siemens.com/en-US/community-catalyst-program/ https://www.sw.siemens.com/en-US/community-catalyst-program/
LoveMortuus 3y ago
I do own an iPhone, but I do like the idea of Apple filling up the EU economy by paying out the fines that the EU lawmakers serve and will serve onto them.
gumby 3y ago
Unfortunately this is backwards for me. My mac usage is direct download (when possible) for small developers, but get the advantages of the mac app store when using an app written from someone big. So if I were inclined to download something from Epic I'd want to use the app store anyway. For phones though I don't have the tools I do on the mac (ios is too opaque) so if I couldn't get it from the Apple app store I just wouldn't download the app at all.
- margana 3y ago
  That's fine. Not every citizen has to actively use every right made available to them by the law. That doesn't diminish its value for the ones who do need it.
  - gumby 3y ago
    Sure, that's why I said, "for me". Perhaps there are many more, perhaps I'm an outlier, and maybe some HN threads might uncover a which (sometimes happens). Apple’s requirement that you already have a lot of downloads pretty much defeats the support for small indie developers. But I doubt many people care much about supporting them anyway.
Retr0id 3y ago
What does "quote unquote" mean in this context?
- catlikesshrimp 3y ago
  "Developers will pay a core technology fee of €0.50 for each first annual install over one million in the past 12 months." His "" must be difficult to type. Ease of use.
mizzao 3y ago
And at some point, the effects may well ripple back to the US as well.
wolpoli 3y ago
Apple is going to have a hard explaining if the regulator asks why it costs €0.50 per first annual install when it's free on Android.
wkat4242 3y ago
Yeah it's not much of an 'announcement' at all. In Holland we call that "making someone happy with a dead sparrow". My cat tries that sometimes:')
sergiotapia 3y ago
Isn't the point of third party stores being able to not interact with Apple gatekeeping whatsoever? What's this €0.50 per install thing? On my pixel I can download and install any .apk I want. Easy breezy. Isn't this what the EU intended with the recent veredict?
hyperthesis 3y ago
Apple legal's playbook is contempt: > "So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple’s far more popular iPad." - https://filklore.com/wordpress/2012/10/are-apple-in-contempt-of-uk-court/ https://filklore.com/wordpress/2012/10/are-apple-in-contempt...
gcanyon 3y ago
I'm a little bit playing devil's advocate here, but: concerning how? > you have to have at least one million first installs annually on iOS to even qualify That's not what the site says at all? "Membership in the Apple Developer Program includes one million first annual installs per year for free for apps distributed from the App Store, alternative marketplaces, and/or Web Distribution." That seems to indicate that there is no minimum, and installs up to 1 million are free. That means that (wild guess) 99.5% of all apps ever released will pay no fee. EDIT TO CORRECT: see below, you have to have an app over 1 million downloads in the previous year to participate, but this description of the fee structure is correct. Which is...weird? > I doubt Epic and the like would be considered in good standing as far as Apple is concerned. If Apple plays games like this, they deserve consequences. But does it make sense to take this interpretation rather than just assuming the language means what it means: you haven't been kicked off the platform, and you've been around for two years?
- dsissitka 3y ago
  Search for the first occurrence of million: > To be eligible for Web Distribution, you must: ... have an app that had more than one million first annual installs on iOS in the EU in the prior calendar year.
  - gcanyon 3y ago
    Ah, sorry, I missed that part. It's a weird distinction -- you could have one app with a million installs, and a million apps with one install each, and all could be installed from your web page? So this points to the other thing I said, which is that there are very few developers that will meet this requirement.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  It's less "concerning" and more "flagrantly ridiculous". A company has to pay Apple half a euro for every executable download from the company's own website? If Microsoft tried this shit with Windows people would be apoplectic.
  - 3y ago

MatthiasPortzel 3y ago

They’re the same terms as those required for an alternative app marketplace.

rekoil 3y ago
Not exactly, looks like there's no requirement to have €1,000,000 in your bank account like you need for alternative app marketplaces.
- concinds 3y ago
  They dropped that too. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/05/apple-tweaks-eu-app-store-business-terms/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/05/apple-tweaks-eu-app-sto...

concinds 3y ago

In other words, you're only "eligible" for web distribution if you meet the threshold to pay the Core Technology Fee tax? (on top of the other requirements). Sounds convenient.

EMIRELADERO 3y ago
Conveniently non-compliant.
christkv 3y ago
Seems pretty much written to keep Epic, Valve and others off the phone i imagine.

captainmuon 3y ago

That's probably to prevent the most obvious workaround of creating a new shell company for every million users. (Which would be not so ridiculous as it sounds, there is plenty of software you cannot buy directly but only through a reseller. Epic could become a pure b2b shop on paper and sell Fortnite clients to regional distributors, or something like that.) Some time ago somebody made an alternative App Store for emulators, https://altstore.io https://altstore.io . I think it works by having users get a developer's certificate and installing the apps like an in-development app. I think it would be really neat if this model got tested in court and declared completely legal.

EMIRELADERO 3y ago
> That's probably to prevent the most obvious workaround of creating a new shell company for every million users. Which would be all around moot because the fee itself is illegal.
- Someone 3y ago
  > Which would be all around moot because the fee itself is illegal I haven’t seen any statement in any jurisdiction by lawmakers or judges that supports that claim. It also would, to me, feel inconsistent with the rulings I read about: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision: “Rogers found in favor of Apple on nine of ten counts brought up against them in the case, including Epic's charges related to Apple's 30% revenue cut” - https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitlement/ https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl...: “Consistent with the interim relief ruling of the Rotterdam district court, dating apps that are granted an entitlement to link out or use a third-party in-app payment provider will pay Apple a commission on transactions. Apple will reduce its commission by 3% on the price paid by the user, net of value-added taxes. This is a reduced rate that excludes value related to payment processing and related activities” What did I miss?
  - layer8 3y ago
    You may have missed the “free of charge” wording in the DMA.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

~20% of Apple's total earnings (not revenue) could come from the App Store: https://deepwatermgmt.com/apples-app-store-is-an-important-part-of-its-profitability-and-its-not-changing/ https://deepwatermgmt.com/apples-app-store-is-an-important-p... When you look at the multiple on services - the App Store could easily be >40% of Apple's total market cap. They're going to stick their fingers in their ears as long as they can to defend that. You don't give up the golden goose. You defend it.

delfinom 3y ago
Good thing goose is eaten in Europe traditionally.
- toyg 3y ago
  It's not even the harshest thing we do to that sort of bird. Patè des californiens is going to be delicious.
itopaloglu83 3y ago
[flagged]
loceng 3y ago
[flagged]
- youngtaff 3y ago
  What’s the woke culture mind virus?
  - loceng 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - layer8 3y ago
      But human life doesn’t.

andy_ppp 3y ago

Charging per install rather than per subscription is hilarious, almost as if all of this is designed to wind up the EU and cause the largest possible fine.

rchaud 3y ago
It's designed to sow confusion among the big vendors in the app store driving most of the revenue, and keep them walled in where it's 'safe'.
CharlesW 3y ago
It's per year, not per install. All subsequent installs/updates in that year do not incur additional charges. > "Developers will pay a CTF of €0.50 for each first annual install over one million in the past 12 months."
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dns_snek 3y ago
  That really doesn't change their point. It's only slightly less ridiculous, but still completely unworkable and obviously against the spirit of the regulation. I say spirit of the regulation because I'm not a lawyer and don't want to make absolute claims about the law as written, and I trust the EU to close any loopholes that may arise.
  - andy_ppp 3y ago
    I’ve actually come to the conclusion Apple has stopped behaving rationally here, they are behaving quite erratically.

rmbyrro 3y ago

It's sad to see Apple adopting kind of an Oracle way of business. "Kind of"... They were screwed by Microsoft in the past. And now they're the ones screwing every single small and mid-sized software shop everywhere. When will we stop buying their products?

pmontra 3y ago
I never bought an Apple product. Before the iPhone, because I never liked the Mac UI with the bar at the top and the apps menu over there and I didn't need an iPod. After the iPhone, a personal boycott because of the walled garden. It was not immediately clear what the endgame would be but it was pretty clear that this level of control by a single corporation on a large part of the world is a bad thing.
- 6510 3y ago
  There is no software to be written for me on this platform and it's growing. People who do write for it live in this electronic ghetto regardless of their size. The customer isn't king, she is a serf.
RamiAwar 3y ago
Never buying an apple product again personally, or building ios apps.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dev1ycan 3y ago
speak for yourself I've had two apple products, ever, an Ipod touch 4 (trash) and an ipod nano 7th gen, the nano was good but for music playback, I'd never get an iphone, I'm not down to lock myself down to their terrible ecosystem
jajko 3y ago
When? When Apple products will stop being perceived as something better than competition. They somehow created the image that they are some sort of luxury, but if that was ever an actual case its long gone. Don't take me wrong, its a fine long term marketing performance and I respect them for it, but lets be a bit more technical and less emotional here. Some phones are way more expensive than A top line, have massive cameras, better screens, batteries (I mean real life, one of failures on A side for first decade), better integration with rest of the electronic world (like streaming fullhd tv from phone to any TV I saw so far, or having mouse&keyboard desktop on big screen via single USB-C cable out of box, or very good pen within the phone - image editing goes to another level). Plus you have much bigger variety, anything from 50$. And they are open, not unimportant aspect not only for many HN users. That doesn't mean they do bad products, in contrary. But emotions aside, its now just another set of products with personally weird philosophy, even weirder emotional fanbase and just a much more closed ecosystem.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

> The gears of EU turn slowly, but grind finely. What would happen if big companies simply refuse to pay? Will EU put the European employees in jail? Would they put Americans in their jail? Will they do DNS block? Credit card block? Remove apple products from physical store? Many of the EU countries like Germany are export driven and certainly they don't want to close the market.

mithras 3y ago
For Apple they could just ban iPhones from the market, that should be enough to make Apple comply.
EraYaN 3y ago
Apple has so much stuff and money in the EU, that there will be plenty to take. Only recently have the started to take back some of the funds from Ireland. Apple would be in a pretty bad place if those accounts were all seized, not in the last place because it would block all transactions including customer ones, ones to may for servers, rent etc. Apple might look stupid but they aren't that stupid.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  Can't they take all the money out a month before they are planning to refuse to pay fine? I am pretty sure EU could never block Apple's fund unless they want to totally remove all the business from EU.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- selectodude 3y ago
  The EU won’t even seize Russia’s assets. You think they’ll start a shitstorm with the united states?
  - asadotzler 3y ago

kebman 3y ago

"The gears of EU turn slowly, but grind finely." QFT.

cm2012 3y ago

Edit: Removed, I used too harsh language for Apple

dang 3y ago
Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. We're trying for something a bit different here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

CM30 3y ago

Agreed. Apple's stubbornness and clear attempts to retaliate against everyone for these changes are not going to go well for them, and they need to realise that at some point. It's genuinely shocking how petty the company is acting with these changes, and how obvious their attempts at only doing the bare minimum to follow the law are.

toyg 3y ago
Remember when Apple taunted bigger companies to sue them, in the name of technological freedom? Pepperidge Farm remembers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi So sad to see them on the other side of the table now, using every trick in the book to screw over the entire sector. Mr. Cook, tear down this wall!
- bombcar 3y ago
  The list of companies bigger than Apple is now very small. All that’s left, really, are countries.

cynicalsecurity 3y ago

These are some cult-like requirements. The term "good standing" comes not from business, it comes directly from the domain of authoritarian-destructive cults.

leptons 3y ago
I'm not sure why the EU would let Apple make up the terms of their surrender. It's like letting a convicted felon decide on their punishment.
serial_dev 3y ago
It's mobspeak.
samatman 3y ago
Nonsense. The term "customer in good standing" has a well-established legal tradition in contract law. You're just making stuff up. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/customer-in-good-standing https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/customer-in-good-stand...
- cynicalsecurity 3y ago
  No business is using this term in real life, but it's heavily used by cults.
  - Aloisius 3y ago
    Uh. I assure you, the term is widely used by companies and governments. Source: "Your PG&E residential account is in good standing at the time of the outage and at the time PG&E issues payment" - https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-safety/outage-preparedness-and-support/general-outage-resources/outage-compensation-programs.html https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-safety/outage-preparednes... "Must remain on qualifying service in good standing for duration of EIP agreement." - https://www.t-mobile.com/accessories/category/mounts-docks-and-stands https://www.t-mobile.com/accessories/category/mounts-docks-a... "Request for Certificate of Good Standing" - https://cand.uscourts.gov/attorneys/request-for-certificate-of-good-standing/ https://cand.uscourts.gov/attorneys/request-for-certificate-... "Tangerine may reject the overpayment and your Account may not be considered to be in Good Standing." - https://www.tangerine.ca/en/legal/credit-card-cardholder-agreement https://www.tangerine.ca/en/legal/credit-card-cardholder-agr... "Use this form to pay the United States Tax Court to order a Certificate of Good Standing" - https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/802285219 https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/802285219 "Your account must be in good standing to sign up" - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/899060/your-account-must-be-in-good-standing-to-sign-up https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/899060/y... "To maintain status as a member in good standing, SCCs must notify the SCC program manager of any changes to information collected to administer the program." - https://www.sw.siemens.com/en-US/community-catalyst-program/ https://www.sw.siemens.com/en-US/community-catalyst-program/

LoveMortuus 3y ago

I do own an iPhone, but I do like the idea of Apple filling up the EU economy by paying out the fines that the EU lawmakers serve and will serve onto them.

gumby 3y ago

Unfortunately this is backwards for me. My mac usage is direct download (when possible) for small developers, but get the advantages of the mac app store when using an app written from someone big. So if I were inclined to download something from Epic I'd want to use the app store anyway. For phones though I don't have the tools I do on the mac (ios is too opaque) so if I couldn't get it from the Apple app store I just wouldn't download the app at all.

margana 3y ago
That's fine. Not every citizen has to actively use every right made available to them by the law. That doesn't diminish its value for the ones who do need it.
- gumby 3y ago
  Sure, that's why I said, "for me". Perhaps there are many more, perhaps I'm an outlier, and maybe some HN threads might uncover a which (sometimes happens). Apple’s requirement that you already have a lot of downloads pretty much defeats the support for small indie developers. But I doubt many people care much about supporting them anyway.

Retr0id 3y ago

What does "quote unquote" mean in this context?

catlikesshrimp 3y ago
"Developers will pay a core technology fee of €0.50 for each first annual install over one million in the past 12 months." His "" must be difficult to type. Ease of use.

mizzao 3y ago

And at some point, the effects may well ripple back to the US as well.

wolpoli 3y ago

Apple is going to have a hard explaining if the regulator asks why it costs €0.50 per first annual install when it's free on Android.

wkat4242 3y ago

Yeah it's not much of an 'announcement' at all. In Holland we call that "making someone happy with a dead sparrow". My cat tries that sometimes:')

sergiotapia 3y ago

Isn't the point of third party stores being able to not interact with Apple gatekeeping whatsoever? What's this €0.50 per install thing? On my pixel I can download and install any .apk I want. Easy breezy. Isn't this what the EU intended with the recent veredict?

hyperthesis 3y ago

Apple legal's playbook is contempt: > "So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple’s far more popular iPad." - https://filklore.com/wordpress/2012/10/are-apple-in-contempt-of-uk-court/ https://filklore.com/wordpress/2012/10/are-apple-in-contempt...

gcanyon 3y ago

I'm a little bit playing devil's advocate here, but: concerning how? > you have to have at least one million first installs annually on iOS to even qualify That's not what the site says at all? "Membership in the Apple Developer Program includes one million first annual installs per year for free for apps distributed from the App Store, alternative marketplaces, and/or Web Distribution." That seems to indicate that there is no minimum, and installs up to 1 million are free. That means that (wild guess) 99.5% of all apps ever released will pay no fee. EDIT TO CORRECT: see below, you have to have an app over 1 million downloads in the previous year to participate, but this description of the fee structure is correct. Which is...weird? > I doubt Epic and the like would be considered in good standing as far as Apple is concerned. If Apple plays games like this, they deserve consequences. But does it make sense to take this interpretation rather than just assuming the language means what it means: you haven't been kicked off the platform, and you've been around for two years?

dsissitka 3y ago
Search for the first occurrence of million: > To be eligible for Web Distribution, you must: ... have an app that had more than one million first annual installs on iOS in the EU in the prior calendar year.
- gcanyon 3y ago
  Ah, sorry, I missed that part. It's a weird distinction -- you could have one app with a million installs, and a million apps with one install each, and all could be installed from your web page? So this points to the other thing I said, which is that there are very few developers that will meet this requirement.
TulliusCicero 3y ago
It's less "concerning" and more "flagrantly ridiculous". A company has to pay Apple half a euro for every executable download from the company's own website? If Microsoft tried this shit with Windows people would be apoplectic.
- 3y ago