7 ms·

I suppose the next stage of malicious compliance will be to allow absolutely everyone to publish apps everywhere, but with some technical warning that is design

I suppose the next stage of malicious compliance will be to allow absolutely everyone to publish apps everywhere, but with some technical warning that is designed to be ignored.

Thorrez 3y ago
What's malicious about that? That the warning is designed to be ignored? If they deleted the warning, would that be much different?
- chaostheory 3y ago
  The same reason it’s frowned upon to install random apps from the internet onto your PC. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    Mobile OSes are not the same as windows or even Mac.
    - chaostheory 3y ago
      Yeah, their main differentiator is that they’re locked down.
      - jackpeterfletch 3y ago
        and are most peoples 2fa device
      - dns_snek 3y ago
        They're locked down through technological measures such as sandboxing, which is designed to resist against malicious guests regardless of their origin and distribution method.
    - sharikous 3y ago
      With typical usage they contain more sensitive data and people are less aware of what happens in them than PCs. And mobile phones are perfect spying devices too. So the security question is more delicate
      - alerighi 3y ago
        Well, not really. Usually people have all their personal data on their PC, rather than mobile phone. Maybe this is changing for young people, but on my parents hard drive (for example) there is 30+ years of all sort of personal data, documents of every kind, emails, documents, etc. Not counting all the password and access saved in the browser itself. If we talk about businesses, public administrations, hospitals basically everything is inside computers, including very sensitive data.
        yunwal 3y ago
        The location data from your PC, for example, is not nearly as sensitive as a phone.
  - leereeves 3y ago
    I've directly installed hundreds of apps on my PC. No disasters have happened.
    - acdha 3y ago
      “I’ve driven many miles and never crashed. Why do I need to pay for seatbelts?” These are population level decisions which require you to think about mainstream use. For example, you probably have been safe because you know what to look for. This is not true of the general public and there are millions of people who _thought_ they were making a safe choice and only realized later that the polite person in the call center was not actually trying to help them, etc.
      - leereeves 3y ago
        > “I’ve driven many miles and never crashed. Why do I need to pay for seatbelts?” Bad analogy. A better analogy is: I’ve driven many miles and never crashed. Why do I still need Toyota's permission to drive? I'm absolutely in favor of "seatbelts" for computers, but that means sandboxing, not censorship or rent seeking. It also means you can remove the "seatbelt" when you need to.
        acdha 3y ago
        I used seatbelts because every car safety measure you can think of has had someone complaining about having to pay a cost for something they’re too good a driver to need. Having apps notarized to enforce some basic legal & safety standards seems similar: it definitely costs more than zero, it definitely is a restriction on absolute freedom, but it helps prevent things which are statistically certain to keep happening otherwise.
        repelsteeltje 3y ago
        > Having apps notarized to enforce some basic legal & safety standards seems similar. Which things, exactly?
  - devnullbrain 3y ago
    It's not frowned upon, it's the normal way of doing anything non-trivial in Windows land. You don't get something from a repo, you go to the Foobinator Tools website to download BarApp Pro
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Windows is frowned upon. Laptop sales decline every year. People are giving up the idea of keyboards and big screens to avoid Windows laptops. Copying and monetizing the open source repo idea is the smartest thing smartphone manufacturers did.
    - mattl 3y ago
      I thought Windows had winget or something now?
  - fennecbutt 3y ago
    Sounds like their sandbox and permissions system is lacking then. Hmm somehow I can go to any website in a browser and be just fine hmmmm
- layer8 3y ago
  I suspect the GP is being sarcastic.
sebtron 3y ago
That would be great! I'd love to just be able to make and app and let Iphone users get it, without Apple having any business in it.
- rchaud 3y ago
  You just explained why web apps are nerfed on Safari.
- 14 3y ago
  I would love that. I have recently tried downloading a few apps for different reasons and every single all is locked away, for any useful features, behind in app purchases. I remember the days back when iPhone first came out you could find apps and no such thing as purchasing features. It dawned on me that my iPhone is a pretty shitty platform unlike my Pc where I can download many free open source projects made by passionate people who like to share. I haven’t owned an android in years but I am seriously contemplating getting a google pixel phone as they still have unlocked bootloaders. Our phones are capable of so much more but have been dumbed down so apple can let developers sell us features through apps while taking a 30% fee along the way.
  - warkdarrior 3y ago
    > I have recently tried downloading a few apps for different reasons and every single all is locked away, for any useful features, behind in app purchases. And you think those developers, once freed from the Apple App Store, will release their apps for free on the web???
    - sebtron 3y ago
      Probably not them, but other developers for whom Apple's bullshit (like the 99$/year fee) is too much of a barrier of entry would be happy to share their work for free.
    - 14 3y ago
      Well if the iPhone was not locked down and one could install open source freeware yes. There are apps for almost anything you can imagine for free on a pc. Look at OpenOffice for example. Free where ms version is quite costly. People are passionate about sharing things. Yes there are paid software that is great and I think they should be allowed as well but they should also have to keep innovating and offer something to entice customers like real human support for example. But open source freeware also has a place but it is being blocked for “security “ which too is alright but at the end of the day we have these phones which are very powerful mini computers and if I want to risk my security I should be allowed to install anything I want. This is why I was into jailbreaking back in the day. I bought an iPhone and the guy at the cell store sold me 1000 video messages with my plan. Be me surprised to learn there was not even a way to take videos on the iPhone back then (people think this is bull shit but it is the truth iPhone only had a camera back then no video). When I searched how to take videos I learned about cycorder available on cydia. Then I learned about jailbreak and took the chance and did it. Then I was able to take videos. Although apple slowly closed the gap a jailbroken phone was far more superior for years. My current iPhone is jailbreakable but I have been out of the scene a long time so not sure I want to mess around I think it might break my banking app not positive but haven’t the time to figure it all out.
mordae 3y ago
You mean like Android does?
fennecbutt 3y ago
Nah, I bet they'll let people install apps from anywhere, but for those apps they'll purposefully crack open the app sandbox to truly allow anything & everything, then when malware/scams hit Apple will be like "see, we told you it was a bad idea " Predicting it now.
mihalycsaba 3y ago
I'm developing an open source app(flutter) I have already started it in a simulator(kvm). I just don't want to jump through all the hoops and pay to be able to publis the app somewhere for ios users.

I suppose the next stage of malicious compliance will be to allow absolutely everyone to publish apps everywhere, but with some technical warning that is designed to be ignored.

Thorrez 3y ago

What's malicious about that? That the warning is designed to be ignored? If they deleted the warning, would that be much different?

chaostheory 3y ago
The same reason it’s frowned upon to install random apps from the internet onto your PC. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Mobile OSes are not the same as windows or even Mac.
  - chaostheory 3y ago
    Yeah, their main differentiator is that they’re locked down.
    - jackpeterfletch 3y ago
      and are most peoples 2fa device
    - dns_snek 3y ago
      They're locked down through technological measures such as sandboxing, which is designed to resist against malicious guests regardless of their origin and distribution method.
  - sharikous 3y ago
    With typical usage they contain more sensitive data and people are less aware of what happens in them than PCs. And mobile phones are perfect spying devices too. So the security question is more delicate
    - alerighi 3y ago
      Well, not really. Usually people have all their personal data on their PC, rather than mobile phone. Maybe this is changing for young people, but on my parents hard drive (for example) there is 30+ years of all sort of personal data, documents of every kind, emails, documents, etc. Not counting all the password and access saved in the browser itself. If we talk about businesses, public administrations, hospitals basically everything is inside computers, including very sensitive data.
      - yunwal 3y ago
        The location data from your PC, for example, is not nearly as sensitive as a phone.
- leereeves 3y ago
  I've directly installed hundreds of apps on my PC. No disasters have happened.
  - acdha 3y ago
    “I’ve driven many miles and never crashed. Why do I need to pay for seatbelts?” These are population level decisions which require you to think about mainstream use. For example, you probably have been safe because you know what to look for. This is not true of the general public and there are millions of people who _thought_ they were making a safe choice and only realized later that the polite person in the call center was not actually trying to help them, etc.
    - leereeves 3y ago
      > “I’ve driven many miles and never crashed. Why do I need to pay for seatbelts?” Bad analogy. A better analogy is: I’ve driven many miles and never crashed. Why do I still need Toyota's permission to drive? I'm absolutely in favor of "seatbelts" for computers, but that means sandboxing, not censorship or rent seeking. It also means you can remove the "seatbelt" when you need to.
      - acdha 3y ago
        I used seatbelts because every car safety measure you can think of has had someone complaining about having to pay a cost for something they’re too good a driver to need. Having apps notarized to enforce some basic legal & safety standards seems similar: it definitely costs more than zero, it definitely is a restriction on absolute freedom, but it helps prevent things which are statistically certain to keep happening otherwise.
        repelsteeltje 3y ago
        > Having apps notarized to enforce some basic legal & safety standards seems similar. Which things, exactly?
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  It's not frowned upon, it's the normal way of doing anything non-trivial in Windows land. You don't get something from a repo, you go to the Foobinator Tools website to download BarApp Pro
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    Windows is frowned upon. Laptop sales decline every year. People are giving up the idea of keyboards and big screens to avoid Windows laptops. Copying and monetizing the open source repo idea is the smartest thing smartphone manufacturers did.
  - mattl 3y ago
    I thought Windows had winget or something now?
- fennecbutt 3y ago
  Sounds like their sandbox and permissions system is lacking then. Hmm somehow I can go to any website in a browser and be just fine hmmmm
layer8 3y ago
I suspect the GP is being sarcastic.

sebtron 3y ago

That would be great! I'd love to just be able to make and app and let Iphone users get it, without Apple having any business in it.

rchaud 3y ago
You just explained why web apps are nerfed on Safari.
14 3y ago
I would love that. I have recently tried downloading a few apps for different reasons and every single all is locked away, for any useful features, behind in app purchases. I remember the days back when iPhone first came out you could find apps and no such thing as purchasing features. It dawned on me that my iPhone is a pretty shitty platform unlike my Pc where I can download many free open source projects made by passionate people who like to share. I haven’t owned an android in years but I am seriously contemplating getting a google pixel phone as they still have unlocked bootloaders. Our phones are capable of so much more but have been dumbed down so apple can let developers sell us features through apps while taking a 30% fee along the way.
- warkdarrior 3y ago
  > I have recently tried downloading a few apps for different reasons and every single all is locked away, for any useful features, behind in app purchases. And you think those developers, once freed from the Apple App Store, will release their apps for free on the web???
  - sebtron 3y ago
    Probably not them, but other developers for whom Apple's bullshit (like the 99$/year fee) is too much of a barrier of entry would be happy to share their work for free.
  - 14 3y ago
    Well if the iPhone was not locked down and one could install open source freeware yes. There are apps for almost anything you can imagine for free on a pc. Look at OpenOffice for example. Free where ms version is quite costly. People are passionate about sharing things. Yes there are paid software that is great and I think they should be allowed as well but they should also have to keep innovating and offer something to entice customers like real human support for example. But open source freeware also has a place but it is being blocked for “security “ which too is alright but at the end of the day we have these phones which are very powerful mini computers and if I want to risk my security I should be allowed to install anything I want. This is why I was into jailbreaking back in the day. I bought an iPhone and the guy at the cell store sold me 1000 video messages with my plan. Be me surprised to learn there was not even a way to take videos on the iPhone back then (people think this is bull shit but it is the truth iPhone only had a camera back then no video). When I searched how to take videos I learned about cycorder available on cydia. Then I learned about jailbreak and took the chance and did it. Then I was able to take videos. Although apple slowly closed the gap a jailbroken phone was far more superior for years. My current iPhone is jailbreakable but I have been out of the scene a long time so not sure I want to mess around I think it might break my banking app not positive but haven’t the time to figure it all out.

mordae 3y ago

You mean like Android does?

fennecbutt 3y ago

Nah, I bet they'll let people install apps from anywhere, but for those apps they'll purposefully crack open the app sandbox to truly allow anything & everything, then when malware/scams hit Apple will be like "see, we told you it was a bad idea " Predicting it now.

mihalycsaba 3y ago

I'm developing an open source app(flutter) I have already started it in a simulator(kvm). I just don't want to jump through all the hoops and pay to be able to publis the app somewhere for ios users.