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Irrespective of this specific case, do you honestly believe it is inconceivable one of the largest defense contractors in the world with deep connections to the

by agency 3y ago

Irrespective of this specific case, do you honestly believe it is inconceivable one of the largest defense contractors in the world with deep connections to the military and intelligence apparatus would be capable of having an individual murdered if it were sufficiently important to their interests?

esoterica 3y ago
No, not they are not. The military and intelligence apparatus does not care if Boeing has to pay a fine. They will not carry out an execution at Boeing’s behest just to save them from a lawsuit. Conspiracy theorists love conspiracy theories because they allow them to feel smarter than the “sheeple” that believe the official story. They don’t care if the actual conspiracy theory is wildly implausible and stupid, it’s just too psychological seductive for them. Sorry but couldn’t be me, I am not dumb enough to fall for that cognitive hazard.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  > Sorry but couldn’t be me, I am not dumb enough to fall for that cognitive hazard. Good for you, we all strive to reach your level of enlightenment. Leave the rest of us stupid plebs alone and move along, then.
- calamari4065 3y ago
  You vastly overestimate how hard it is to have someone killed. It doesn't take nation-state resources to kill a random civilian. It's a few tens of thousands of dollars. Even a few million is basically nothing to a corporation like this.
  - coolThingsFirst 3y ago
    It’s not the money that’s the issue, it’s the risk of getting caught with multiple life sentences. They got money to spare but it’s useless when you serve 50 behind bars.
    - wetmore 3y ago
      And that's why no murders are ever committed, because the possibility of jail time or capital punishment dissuades anyone who would consider committing murder.
    - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
      Admittedly, we're speculating in conspiracy-land right now, but... Yeah, going to jail for years is a pretty decent deterrent for committing murder. But a criminal investigation was officially opened into Boeing. Maybe some powerful individuals realized they could be looking at jail time anyway if certain information comes to court, so they ran a risk analysis and decided it was worth it.
    - lupusreal 3y ago
      It was irrational not to mention illegal for eBay to harass some obscure blogger with death threats, yet it happened.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  The military and intelligence apparatus does not care You don't need the whole apparatus, just someone who has been trained by it and is morally flexible. Well, you don't even need that, but obviously people with professional experience tend to do a better job. We do not have evidence yet of this being a murder-for-hire or similar, but you're insisting on the impossibility of such when in reality it's not all that unusual. Excluding it as a possibility is just as much cognitive bias as assuming it to be true.
  - coolThingsFirst 3y ago
    Pretending this is common in the West is absurd. Why wouldn’t POTUS have journalists killed then? Surely he’s more powerful than boeings CEO.
    - smsm42 3y ago
      Virtually all journalists work for the same system POTUS is headlining, why would he kill his own henchmen? Those rare cases where some don't are handled much better by censorship and deplatforming. Why kill someone if you can make it so virtually nobody would listen to him anyway and all "respectable" news outlets would declare he is insane and likely is working for the enemy, whatever that is today? Killing the story is much easier and much more efficient, and has been done many times.
    - orwin 3y ago
      In France/Lybia, the last two witnesses of khadafi personnal finances died within a week of each other, in two different countries (one Irak, one Netherlands if I remember correctly) once revelations from journalists about ex-president Sarkozy financing of his 2007 campaign hit. They also raised questions about the reason Khadafi was the first foreign leader invited in France, and why France took the lead in starting the Lybia war (representatives of the rebel groups were present in the Elysée two days before the start of the lybian Civil War).
    - rl3 3y ago
      >Pretending this is common in the West is absurd. That's fair. That said it's also not unreasonable to consider it a real possibility assuming it isn't immediately ruled out by evidence. >Surely he’s more powerful than boeings CEO. Stuff like this doesn't necessarily originate from the top. It can be people lower on the food chain feeling the heat on the other end of the blame steamroller. --- “They brought them in from other areas of the company. The new leadership team – from my director down – they all came from St. Louis, Missouri. They said they were all buddies there.” [0] “That entire team came down. They were from the military side. My impression was their mindset was – we are going to do it the way we want to do it. Their motto at the time was – we are in Charleston and we can do anything we want.” [0] --- It's most likely he took his own life, although in my opinion it's blood on their hands regardless given the way he was treated. [0] https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead-in-charleston-after-break-in-depositions/ https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/boeing-whist...
- agency 3y ago
  > Conspiracy theorists love conspiracy theories because they allow them to feel smarter than the “sheeple” that believe the official story. [...] Sorry but couldn’t be me, I am not dumb enough to fall for that cognitive hazard. You're right, you'd have to be a total idiot to structure your worldview around the assertion that you're smarter than everyone else.
  - esoterica 3y ago
    I'm not claiming to be smarter than everyone else, but I am claiming to be smarter than the people who believe that Boeing hired Michael Fassbender from The Killer to assassinate a former employee after but only after years of whistleblowing and after all the allegedly incriminating information was already out in the open.

by agency 3y ago

esoterica 3y ago

No, not they are not. The military and intelligence apparatus does not care if Boeing has to pay a fine. They will not carry out an execution at Boeing’s behest just to save them from a lawsuit. Conspiracy theorists love conspiracy theories because they allow them to feel smarter than the “sheeple” that believe the official story. They don’t care if the actual conspiracy theory is wildly implausible and stupid, it’s just too psychological seductive for them. Sorry but couldn’t be me, I am not dumb enough to fall for that cognitive hazard.

maximinus_thrax 3y ago
> Sorry but couldn’t be me, I am not dumb enough to fall for that cognitive hazard. Good for you, we all strive to reach your level of enlightenment. Leave the rest of us stupid plebs alone and move along, then.
calamari4065 3y ago
You vastly overestimate how hard it is to have someone killed. It doesn't take nation-state resources to kill a random civilian. It's a few tens of thousands of dollars. Even a few million is basically nothing to a corporation like this.
- coolThingsFirst 3y ago
  It’s not the money that’s the issue, it’s the risk of getting caught with multiple life sentences. They got money to spare but it’s useless when you serve 50 behind bars.
  - wetmore 3y ago
    And that's why no murders are ever committed, because the possibility of jail time or capital punishment dissuades anyone who would consider committing murder.
  - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
    Admittedly, we're speculating in conspiracy-land right now, but... Yeah, going to jail for years is a pretty decent deterrent for committing murder. But a criminal investigation was officially opened into Boeing. Maybe some powerful individuals realized they could be looking at jail time anyway if certain information comes to court, so they ran a risk analysis and decided it was worth it.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    It was irrational not to mention illegal for eBay to harass some obscure blogger with death threats, yet it happened.
anigbrowl 3y ago
The military and intelligence apparatus does not care You don't need the whole apparatus, just someone who has been trained by it and is morally flexible. Well, you don't even need that, but obviously people with professional experience tend to do a better job. We do not have evidence yet of this being a murder-for-hire or similar, but you're insisting on the impossibility of such when in reality it's not all that unusual. Excluding it as a possibility is just as much cognitive bias as assuming it to be true.
- coolThingsFirst 3y ago
  Pretending this is common in the West is absurd. Why wouldn’t POTUS have journalists killed then? Surely he’s more powerful than boeings CEO.
  - smsm42 3y ago
    Virtually all journalists work for the same system POTUS is headlining, why would he kill his own henchmen? Those rare cases where some don't are handled much better by censorship and deplatforming. Why kill someone if you can make it so virtually nobody would listen to him anyway and all "respectable" news outlets would declare he is insane and likely is working for the enemy, whatever that is today? Killing the story is much easier and much more efficient, and has been done many times.
  - orwin 3y ago
    In France/Lybia, the last two witnesses of khadafi personnal finances died within a week of each other, in two different countries (one Irak, one Netherlands if I remember correctly) once revelations from journalists about ex-president Sarkozy financing of his 2007 campaign hit. They also raised questions about the reason Khadafi was the first foreign leader invited in France, and why France took the lead in starting the Lybia war (representatives of the rebel groups were present in the Elysée two days before the start of the lybian Civil War).
  - rl3 3y ago
    >Pretending this is common in the West is absurd. That's fair. That said it's also not unreasonable to consider it a real possibility assuming it isn't immediately ruled out by evidence. >Surely he’s more powerful than boeings CEO. Stuff like this doesn't necessarily originate from the top. It can be people lower on the food chain feeling the heat on the other end of the blame steamroller. --- “They brought them in from other areas of the company. The new leadership team – from my director down – they all came from St. Louis, Missouri. They said they were all buddies there.” [0] “That entire team came down. They were from the military side. My impression was their mindset was – we are going to do it the way we want to do it. Their motto at the time was – we are in Charleston and we can do anything we want.” [0] --- It's most likely he took his own life, although in my opinion it's blood on their hands regardless given the way he was treated. [0] https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead-in-charleston-after-break-in-depositions/ https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/boeing-whist...
agency 3y ago
> Conspiracy theorists love conspiracy theories because they allow them to feel smarter than the “sheeple” that believe the official story. [...] Sorry but couldn’t be me, I am not dumb enough to fall for that cognitive hazard. You're right, you'd have to be a total idiot to structure your worldview around the assertion that you're smarter than everyone else.
- esoterica 3y ago
  I'm not claiming to be smarter than everyone else, but I am claiming to be smarter than the people who believe that Boeing hired Michael Fassbender from The Killer to assassinate a former employee after but only after years of whistleblowing and after all the allegedly incriminating information was already out in the open.