4 ms·

No, scam is the right word. It could pretty easily be rolled into the advertised nightly rate.

smith7018 3y ago
OP is right that it's not necessarily a _scam_ but is more so deceptive advertising. You're also right that they should just show total cost of your stay rather than the nightly rate pre-fees. It's wild to me that Airbnb hasn't done this because it's one of the worst parts of their service that has pushed me (and others I've talked to) back to hotels.
- LordAtlas 3y ago
  If you switch to the Australian AirBnB site, you can see an all-inclusive price because they are required by law to do so there.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I get an itemized bill from the grocery store, but that doesn't make it a scam.
- greedo 3y ago
  It's like putting a bunch of bananas in your basket, thinking the display price ($10 of course) is the real price, only to find out at the checkout, that it's $10 per banana...
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Fees are stated up front, and completely to be expected. I think getting shocked by cleaning fees is like getting shocked that there is a sales tax.. Every time you go to the store. Showing the total with cleaning fees at the end is inconvenient and user hostile, but in no way a "scam".
    - redwall_hp 3y ago
      The US is an anomaly in drip-pricing sales tax at the register. It's normal for sales tax to be part of the list price. It's one of the things travelers to the US are frequently outraged by, as well as our "pint" glasses (16 oz) that are smaller than an imperial pint (20 oz) or metric equivalent. As someone else in the thread pointed out, some locales do require that AirBNB and similar list prices with the fees included, and they comply in those regions. And not including tax is kind of a con when the rate can vary between states, cities and even parts of cities. Nobody can be expected to know the particulars everywhere they go, while businesses are legally required to know in order to collect.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Sure, I agree with everything you said,and that is why I think it is annoying, but not a scam. >Nobody can be expected to know the particulars everywhere they go, while businesses are legally required to know in order to collect. Which is why they tell customers exactly what the total is and fee/tax breakdown before purchase.
- interestica 3y ago
  What if they charged you a fee because they now have to restock the bananas that you removed from their display?
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    it would be annoying and stupid, but if it was a regular and expected part of the bill every time I went shopping, I dont think it would be a "scam". I think scam implies that something is deceptive, but not everything that annoys me is a scam. If users are completely aware of something and expect it, it is hard to claim they are being duped, in my opinion.
usaar333 3y ago
> It could pretty easily be rolled into the advertised nightly rate. No it can't because the hosts are trying to charge a fixed fee per reservation.
- bonestamp2 3y ago
  They can still take that fixed fee and do what some hotels do and average the total cost of the stay across the number of nights booked to get a "nightly rate".
  - usaar333 3y ago
    I don't think hosts have the ability to set variable nightly fees like that.
  - matsemann 3y ago
    You can't do that on airbnb. You can only set a flat fee and a nightly fee. However, in my market customers only see the total, calculated to an avg nightly price. So it all works out and is fair for everyone.
    - bonestamp2 3y ago
      I understand that it can't be done currently, I meant that it is a feature that could be offered by airbnb in the future since it has been done by others in the same industry.
- idontpost 3y ago
  [dead]
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  If they need a fixed fee they should set bounds on the duration of stay. They keep shifting the burden to users when it should be on hosts. AirBnb hosts have had their hands on the scale for too long now because the company is terrified of a mass exodus of hosts (many of whom act just as entitled as your average landlord, who will beat every penny out of you). It used to be a much better service for the users.
namdnay 3y ago
Isn’t it? When I search on airbnb the rates shown on the map include everything. It’s only once you open the page for a specific listing that the price gets broken down
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
No, because math. As others have stated it can't be rolled into the nightly rate because it is only charged once per reservation. At least last time I booked on AirBnB it was clearly displayed as part of the total reservation price if you entered dates.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  I stay at hotels all the time that don't do a cleaning on the first night. How could they possibly figure out the complex calculus of what to charge? Oh right, averaging.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    As another user replied, hotels have a cleaning staff that they just pay a salary to - it is, for the most part, a fixed cost. The owner of a single rental/room really is usually paying a flat fee every time they need their placed cleaned, and thus can have widely different costs based on whether someone stays 1 night or 28. They simply don't have the luxury of averaging their costs over a wide base, no matter how many times you put that word in italics.
    - idiotsecant 3y ago
      This is maybe the least complicated business problem ever. Businesses with fixed asking price but variable cost do it literally every day. This is how it is done: you look at your records and figure out average length of stay, giving you your average cost per customer. You can base your price added to the room on that cost, plus say 20%. Hiding the cost in tack-on fees is not necessary and it's clearly just a method to increase visibility for your property and add the real cost in the back end.
victorbjorklund 3y ago
Lets say their cost for cleaning is 100 usd. Without cleaning they the price per night is 150 usd. How much should the price increase per night to cover the cost of cleaning? So either too low for people staying one night or too high for people staying multiple nights. Why is it better?
- nimih 3y ago
  They should estimate the average stay length of their guests and amortize the cleaning fee appropriately, the same way that many other businesses (including real B&Bs, in my experience) handle fixed costs. In theory, AirBnb should be very good at automating the process (they have large amounts of very granular, market specific, historical rental data), but honestly, if that amount of planning and bookkeeping is too much for the rental operator, maybe running a B&B is not the best career fit for them.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    It's fairly routine for B&Bs to have a 2-night minimum on weekends but, yes, they typically also just have a nightly charge (which may vary depending on day of week) and don't have a fixed per-stay adder. AirBnBs have definitely normalized a significant per-stay charge that isn't the norm in the hotel/inn business.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  Somehow hotels that don't clean every night figured this out like a million years ago. Averaging
  - matsemann 3y ago
    A hotel with 100 rooms can average. Me with my single room can not. If you don't like it, fine, just don't use it. But pricing it to what people actually use, is fairest for everyone.

OP is right that it's not necessarily a _scam_ but is more so deceptive advertising. You're also right that they should just show total cost of your stay rather than the nightly rate pre-fees. It's wild to me that Airbnb hasn't done this because it's one of the worst parts of their service that has pushed me (and others I've talked to) back to hotels.

LordAtlas 3y ago
If you switch to the Australian AirBnB site, you can see an all-inclusive price because they are required by law to do so there.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I get an itemized bill from the grocery store, but that doesn't make it a scam.

greedo 3y ago
It's like putting a bunch of bananas in your basket, thinking the display price ($10 of course) is the real price, only to find out at the checkout, that it's $10 per banana...
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Fees are stated up front, and completely to be expected. I think getting shocked by cleaning fees is like getting shocked that there is a sales tax.. Every time you go to the store. Showing the total with cleaning fees at the end is inconvenient and user hostile, but in no way a "scam".
  - redwall_hp 3y ago
    The US is an anomaly in drip-pricing sales tax at the register. It's normal for sales tax to be part of the list price. It's one of the things travelers to the US are frequently outraged by, as well as our "pint" glasses (16 oz) that are smaller than an imperial pint (20 oz) or metric equivalent. As someone else in the thread pointed out, some locales do require that AirBNB and similar list prices with the fees included, and they comply in those regions. And not including tax is kind of a con when the rate can vary between states, cities and even parts of cities. Nobody can be expected to know the particulars everywhere they go, while businesses are legally required to know in order to collect.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      Sure, I agree with everything you said,and that is why I think it is annoying, but not a scam. >Nobody can be expected to know the particulars everywhere they go, while businesses are legally required to know in order to collect. Which is why they tell customers exactly what the total is and fee/tax breakdown before purchase.
interestica 3y ago
What if they charged you a fee because they now have to restock the bananas that you removed from their display?
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  it would be annoying and stupid, but if it was a regular and expected part of the bill every time I went shopping, I dont think it would be a "scam". I think scam implies that something is deceptive, but not everything that annoys me is a scam. If users are completely aware of something and expect it, it is hard to claim they are being duped, in my opinion.

usaar333 3y ago

> It could pretty easily be rolled into the advertised nightly rate. No it can't because the hosts are trying to charge a fixed fee per reservation.

bonestamp2 3y ago
They can still take that fixed fee and do what some hotels do and average the total cost of the stay across the number of nights booked to get a "nightly rate".
- usaar333 3y ago
  I don't think hosts have the ability to set variable nightly fees like that.
- matsemann 3y ago
  You can't do that on airbnb. You can only set a flat fee and a nightly fee. However, in my market customers only see the total, calculated to an avg nightly price. So it all works out and is fair for everyone.
  - bonestamp2 3y ago
    I understand that it can't be done currently, I meant that it is a feature that could be offered by airbnb in the future since it has been done by others in the same industry.
idontpost 3y ago
[dead]
micromacrofoot 3y ago
If they need a fixed fee they should set bounds on the duration of stay. They keep shifting the burden to users when it should be on hosts. AirBnb hosts have had their hands on the scale for too long now because the company is terrified of a mass exodus of hosts (many of whom act just as entitled as your average landlord, who will beat every penny out of you). It used to be a much better service for the users.

namdnay 3y ago

Isn’t it? When I search on airbnb the rates shown on the map include everything. It’s only once you open the page for a specific listing that the price gets broken down

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

No, because math. As others have stated it can't be rolled into the nightly rate because it is only charged once per reservation. At least last time I booked on AirBnB it was clearly displayed as part of the total reservation price if you entered dates.

idiotsecant 3y ago
I stay at hotels all the time that don't do a cleaning on the first night. How could they possibly figure out the complex calculus of what to charge? Oh right, averaging.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  As another user replied, hotels have a cleaning staff that they just pay a salary to - it is, for the most part, a fixed cost. The owner of a single rental/room really is usually paying a flat fee every time they need their placed cleaned, and thus can have widely different costs based on whether someone stays 1 night or 28. They simply don't have the luxury of averaging their costs over a wide base, no matter how many times you put that word in italics.
  - idiotsecant 3y ago
    This is maybe the least complicated business problem ever. Businesses with fixed asking price but variable cost do it literally every day. This is how it is done: you look at your records and figure out average length of stay, giving you your average cost per customer. You can base your price added to the room on that cost, plus say 20%. Hiding the cost in tack-on fees is not necessary and it's clearly just a method to increase visibility for your property and add the real cost in the back end.

victorbjorklund 3y ago

Lets say their cost for cleaning is 100 usd. Without cleaning they the price per night is 150 usd. How much should the price increase per night to cover the cost of cleaning? So either too low for people staying one night or too high for people staying multiple nights. Why is it better?

nimih 3y ago
They should estimate the average stay length of their guests and amortize the cleaning fee appropriately, the same way that many other businesses (including real B&Bs, in my experience) handle fixed costs. In theory, AirBnb should be very good at automating the process (they have large amounts of very granular, market specific, historical rental data), but honestly, if that amount of planning and bookkeeping is too much for the rental operator, maybe running a B&B is not the best career fit for them.
- ghaff 3y ago
  It's fairly routine for B&Bs to have a 2-night minimum on weekends but, yes, they typically also just have a nightly charge (which may vary depending on day of week) and don't have a fixed per-stay adder. AirBnBs have definitely normalized a significant per-stay charge that isn't the norm in the hotel/inn business.
idiotsecant 3y ago
Somehow hotels that don't clean every night figured this out like a million years ago. Averaging
- matsemann 3y ago
  A hotel with 100 rooms can average. Me with my single room can not. If you don't like it, fine, just don't use it. But pricing it to what people actually use, is fairest for everyone.