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Cleaning fees aren't a "scam" - most property owners really do need to pay someone to clean the property at the end of a stay. But, as another commenter said,
by hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Cleaning fees aren't a "scam" - most property owners really do need to pay someone to clean the property at the end of a stay.
But, as another commenter said, they can be used as a way to encourage longer stays, as with most places you only pay a single cleaning fee regardless of the length of your stay. But, again, it's just a fact that these rentals are usually just cleaned between guests (as opposed to a hotel when cleaning is done daily so it can be rolled into the nightly rate).
- idiotsecant 3y agoNo, scam is the right word. It could pretty easily be rolled into the advertised nightly rate.
- smith7018 3y agoOP is right that it's not necessarily a _scam_ but is more so deceptive advertising. You're also right that they should just show total cost of your stay rather than the nightly rate pre-fees. It's wild to me that Airbnb hasn't done this because it's one of the worst parts of their service that has pushed me (and others I've talked to) back to hotels.
- LordAtlas 3y agoIf you switch to the Australian AirBnB site, you can see an all-inclusive price because they are required by law to do so there.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoI get an itemized bill from the grocery store, but that doesn't make it a scam.
- greedo 3y agoIt's like putting a bunch of bananas in your basket, thinking the display price ($10 of course) is the real price, only to find out at the checkout, that it's $10 per banana...
- s1artibartfast 3y agoFees are stated up front, and completely to be expected. I think getting shocked by cleaning fees is like getting shocked that there is a sales tax.. Every time you go to the store. Showing the total with cleaning fees at the end is inconvenient and user hostile, but in no way a "scam".
- redwall_hp 3y agoThe US is an anomaly in drip-pricing sales tax at the register. It's normal for sales tax to be part of the list price. It's one of the things travelers to the US are frequently outraged by, as well as our "pint" glasses (16 oz) that are smaller than an imperial pint (20 oz) or metric equivalent. As someone else in the thread pointed out, some locales do require that AirBNB and similar list prices with the fees included, and they comply in those regions. And not including tax is kind of a con when the rate can vary between states, cities and even parts of cities. Nobody can be expected to know the particulars everywhere they go, while businesses are legally required to know in order to collect.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoSure, I agree with everything you said,and that is why I think it is annoying, but not a scam. >Nobody can be expected to know the particulars everywhere they go, while businesses are legally required to know in order to collect. Which is why they tell customers exactly what the total is and fee/tax breakdown before purchase.
- interestica 3y agoWhat if they charged you a fee because they now have to restock the bananas that you removed from their display?
- s1artibartfast 3y agoit would be annoying and stupid, but if it was a regular and expected part of the bill every time I went shopping, I dont think it would be a "scam". I think scam implies that something is deceptive, but not everything that annoys me is a scam. If users are completely aware of something and expect it, it is hard to claim they are being duped, in my opinion.
- usaar333 3y ago> It could pretty easily be rolled into the advertised nightly rate. No it can't because the hosts are trying to charge a fixed fee per reservation.
- bonestamp2 3y agoThey can still take that fixed fee and do what some hotels do and average the total cost of the stay across the number of nights booked to get a "nightly rate".
- usaar333 3y agoI don't think hosts have the ability to set variable nightly fees like that.
- matsemann 3y agoYou can't do that on airbnb. You can only set a flat fee and a nightly fee. However, in my market customers only see the total, calculated to an avg nightly price. So it all works out and is fair for everyone.
- bonestamp2 3y agoI understand that it can't be done currently, I meant that it is a feature that could be offered by airbnb in the future since it has been done by others in the same industry.
- idontpost 3y ago[dead]
- micromacrofoot 3y agoIf they need a fixed fee they should set bounds on the duration of stay. They keep shifting the burden to users when it should be on hosts. AirBnb hosts have had their hands on the scale for too long now because the company is terrified of a mass exodus of hosts (many of whom act just as entitled as your average landlord, who will beat every penny out of you). It used to be a much better service for the users.
- namdnay 3y agoIsn’t it? When I search on airbnb the rates shown on the map include everything. It’s only once you open the page for a specific listing that the price gets broken down
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoNo, because math. As others have stated it can't be rolled into the nightly rate because it is only charged once per reservation. At least last time I booked on AirBnB it was clearly displayed as part of the total reservation price if you entered dates.
- idiotsecant 3y agoI stay at hotels all the time that don't do a cleaning on the first night. How could they possibly figure out the complex calculus of what to charge? Oh right, averaging.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoAs another user replied, hotels have a cleaning staff that they just pay a salary to - it is, for the most part, a fixed cost. The owner of a single rental/room really is usually paying a flat fee every time they need their placed cleaned, and thus can have widely different costs based on whether someone stays 1 night or 28. They simply don't have the luxury of averaging their costs over a wide base, no matter how many times you put that word in italics.
- idiotsecant 3y agoThis is maybe the least complicated business problem ever. Businesses with fixed asking price but variable cost do it literally every day. This is how it is done: you look at your records and figure out average length of stay, giving you your average cost per customer. You can base your price added to the room on that cost, plus say 20%. Hiding the cost in tack-on fees is not necessary and it's clearly just a method to increase visibility for your property and add the real cost in the back end.
- victorbjorklund 3y agoLets say their cost for cleaning is 100 usd. Without cleaning they the price per night is 150 usd. How much should the price increase per night to cover the cost of cleaning? So either too low for people staying one night or too high for people staying multiple nights. Why is it better?
- nimih 3y agoThey should estimate the average stay length of their guests and amortize the cleaning fee appropriately, the same way that many other businesses (including real B&Bs, in my experience) handle fixed costs. In theory, AirBnb should be very good at automating the process (they have large amounts of very granular, market specific, historical rental data), but honestly, if that amount of planning and bookkeeping is too much for the rental operator, maybe running a B&B is not the best career fit for them.
- ghaff 3y agoIt's fairly routine for B&Bs to have a 2-night minimum on weekends but, yes, they typically also just have a nightly charge (which may vary depending on day of week) and don't have a fixed per-stay adder. AirBnBs have definitely normalized a significant per-stay charge that isn't the norm in the hotel/inn business.
- idiotsecant 3y agoSomehow hotels that don't clean every night figured this out like a million years ago. Averaging
- matsemann 3y agoA hotel with 100 rooms can average. Me with my single room can not. If you don't like it, fine, just don't use it. But pricing it to what people actually use, is fairest for everyone.
- cratermoon 3y ago> Cleaning fees aren't a "scam" - most property owners really do need to pay someone to clean the property at the end of a stay. I'm willing to pay a cleaning fee (though really it should be rolled into the cost of the stay) but not also be required to do the cleaning myself.
- throwway120385 3y agoIf you rent an apartment in my neck of the woods, then this is exactly what the law is. If your landlord charges a cleaning fee you can feel free to let them clean it up at the end of the rental period.
- lazyasciiart 3y agoThe only reason anyone does the cleaning is because the host can then leave a poor review. Does the law cover this angle?
- ipaddr 3y agoThe law allows you to make multiple accounts. Creating additional cards could help here.
- throwway120385 3y agoWell, if I'm a landlord I'll often call two or three of the tenant's last landlords and ask them if they left the place in decent condition, if they were a good tenant, etc.. So there is a review system for tenants as well. I'll also use someone's credit rating and derogatory notes on credit reports as a proxy for how diligent they are at following a contract. And finally nobody here rents anything long-term without a very high-quality contract either purchased boilerplate or custom-written by a lawyer. So yeah, the law and custom both cover this angle.
- trimethylpurine 3y agoI think it's the time constraints on the dishwasher. Basically there's two levels of cleaning service. Everything else can be cleaned in two hours, but then there is waiting on the dishwasher. The cleaning crew bills to wait for the dishwasher to run and dry (2-4 extra hours). Just look for higher priced rentals, they will roll that cost in. For me, I'd usually rather pay a smaller cleaning fee because I don't usually use the dishes.
- _yb2s 3y agoIt's a scam when the cleaning fee is as much as the advertised nightly rate, and they require me to clean everything still.
- matt-attack 3y agoI suspect you’re not vacuuming, cleaning toilets, cleaning shower, washing bedding, folding and stocking bath towels, putting bedding on and making beds, tiding sofas and kitchens, restocking TP, paper towels, and other consumables.
- partiallypro 3y agoIt's not always a scam but requiring guests to clean while they are also paying a cleaning fee is what makes it a scam.
- eli 3y agoThe fee is obviously much more than they're paying the person who actually does the cleaning.
- marssaxman 3y agoHow is that obvious? Paying $200 for turnover service seems perfectly reasonable; when my wife and I ran an AirBnB, we paid our cleaners $250 per visit.
- EasyMark 3y agoI've rented out a couple rooms in my house in the past for airbnb during special events in Austin to make some hobby money, shared my kitchen, they have a private bathroom. It doesn't cost $200 to clean. I can clean up after them typically in less than an hour.
- ipaddr 3y agoIt cost you nothing but time and some supplies. If you asked a random person to clean it, they would refuse. So you have to pay them. Minimums for cleaning would be 3 hours. At 50 an hour plus taxes and travel $200 doesn't sound unreasonable.
- mrguyorama 3y agoThe people cleaning your hotel room who can barely speak english and get skiddish if you are wearing a law enforcement uniform definitely don't make $50 an hour. If you can't efficiently get cleaning services for your rented out room, maybe you should get out of the hotel business!
- ipaddr 3y agoUnless you have a pipeline of the undocumented then you have to go through a company.
- matsemann 3y agoWait, your point is that those paying their cleaners well, above the board and with a contract should go out of business? But those paying cash, no taxes, low salary abusing people, should remain in business? What an insane take.
- yabatopia 3y agoI think nearly all the house cleaners will be extremely surprised to hear that they earn $50 an hour. Even more, they get all their travel-related costs reimbursed! Oddly enough, that's not what they see on their payslip. And that's assuming they get a payslip at all.
- LordAtlas 3y agoIt's a scam if a cleaning fee is charged and the renters are ALSO expected to do a truckload of cleaning themselves, for which the fee is presumably charged. And a less charitable interpretation is that it's a scam because it's deceptive advertising to show a lower nightly rate.
- hilux 3y agoWhen the cleaning fee frequently exceeds the per-night rate, AND the guest is expected to do a significant amount of cleaning(!) ... that's a scam.