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The 144 Million Dollar Button
- corin_ 14y agoI wonder if they've ever AB tested, somehow doubt it. Would tips go up if the buttons were changed from 20/25/30 to 25/30/35, or would people type in their own amount more, or pay no tip more? What about if there was only one suggested tip rate, 25%? Or a slider you could drag from X to Y? Or...
- maybird 14y agoOr maybe skip the fancy UIs and recommend paying cash for tips? As someone who's worked service jobs in my youth, I'd really like to stress the importance of cash over CC tips. Pay is usually abysmal and CC tips don't always make it into the pockets of the people who deserve it, not to mention the delay. Also, cash is easier to split when necessary. For example, between the wait staff and the kitchen staff. So please always tip in cash.
- corin_ 14y agoI was under the impression that generally (maybe this is a UK thing?) credit card tips get pooled and shared out between staff, whereas cash tips, although they sometimes get pooled, are more likely to go straight to the person you give it to. Either way, it's not really relevant to this story..
- amirmc 14y agoI worked in a kitchen for almost a year (in the UK). CC card tips appeared on my weekly payslip. Cash tips never got split with kitchen staff.
- maybird 14y agoThat's a real shame. The client's impression of the wait staff is greatly influenced by the kitchen staff. That's why we would split our tips.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- Semaphor 14y agoIn Germany, tips using EC-cards or CCs get taxed. Tips in cash don't.
- smcl 14y agoI think the case is that cash tips should be declared on tax forms, but rarely are (at least that's how it is in the UK)
- pmjordan 14y agoIIRC, in Austria, cash tips are tax-exempt, but exactly what constitutes a tip (and who can receive them) is defined by tight rules. I suspect it might be similar in Germany.
- gergles 14y agoNo, I'm not going to support your tax evasion.
- droithomme 14y agoAs long as we are forcing people to pay a surprise tip at the end of the trip and celebrating how much cash we are raking in, why not make the tip amounts 5000%, 10000% and 100000%, with jail time for those who don't pay the minimum tip? Fits in with the rest of the horrific police state that the thugs in control of New York government have implemented there. Saves the cost of a trip to North Korea, with all of the authoritarianism!
- corin_ 14y agoYou need to go read up on what a tip is if you think it is "forced", or indeed a "surprise". And the buttons for quick tip-giving are nothing to do with the government, either.
- speg 14y agoTechnically, three buttons.
- ralfd 14y agoTechnically correct -- the best kind of correct.
- robryan 14y agoI always wonder why they just don't build this tip amount into the price, factoring in a decent wage for the driver. These kind of things seems similar to having the cheapest price for something online but making up for it with inflated shipping charges.
- newbie12 14y agoYou don't have to tip at all if you get poor service.
- adgar 14y agoYou haven't met New York cab drivers. A lot of them treat passengers like less than cargo. Here's the one time I didn't even tip at all. I'd just had an enjoyable but naturally stressful night seeing an ex who came into the city from westchester for the day. I left her at grand central and couldn't be fucked to take the subway, but it was 11:30 at night on Friday at grand central - tough to find a free cab. But after only a few minutes of strategic searching, I finally manage to spot an open cab on the clock - score! Now you should know this crucial NYC cab law: > A Driver who has been dispatched must not refuse, by words, gestures or any other means to provide transportation to a person who has prearranged the trip with a destination within the City of New York, the counties of Westchester or Nassau or Newark Airport. [0] All "prearranged" in a cab means is that the passenger is in the cab and told the driver a destination. It's a really important law - for one, it means cab drivers can't refuse destinations based on race/socioeconomic status/etc. Not all cab drivers like this law because it impacts their take, so they'll try to avoid picking you up. Anyway, this cab driver notices I've spotted him from about 20 feet away and starts rolling down the passenger window, asking where I want to go repeatedly. If I tell him, and he doesn't like it, he'll get the fuck out of there before I get in the cab. I knew exactly what was going on, but I'd had a long god damn night and for once wasn't going to have it. So I just thought "fuck it," didn't say a single word, and just got in the cab and told him my block. He's pissed as fuck because he knows that I know he has to take me there, since I ignored him outside the cab. He doesn't even try talking me out of the cab, he just slams on the fucking gas and drives like a complete asshole so he can try to get a better fare after me. I actually am sort of glad to get home quicker but it's actually maliciously bad driving. I'll still tip him though - that's a big part of his take-home. I realize I don't have any cash, and it was only like a 9 dollar ride, but I figure I'll tip him extra to make up for hit he'll take on the credit card. When he sees the credit card he exclaims "oh come on, credit card? fuck..." At that point, I reminded him that he had to accept the credit card, just like he had to drive me to my home, and (in as many words) suggested he accept the laws governing his trade. Then I tipped him 0 and told the stunning blonde woman getting into the cab that the driver's a prick. [0] §55-20a-1 http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/2011rulebook_ch55.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/2011rulebook_ch55....
- adgar 14y agoYou can also enter your tip manually - which I do often - so the 20%/25%/30% buttons themselves necessarily don't account for all of the change in tipping patterns.
- ticks 14y agoNot being from the States I really don't like tipping, I guess at least with this system it gets rid of the variables, like is tipping expected? How much is acceptable? etc. To me, tipping is just a sign that a business isn't charging enough for the service.
- rplnt 14y agoI don't understand that system either. I tip (more) when I get some extra service. Might be a beer over the mark, hint on what food to order, or even a smile. It's my choice to tip and it should be like that.
- tzaman 14y agoNot true. I'm not from the States either (Slovenia, to be exact) and I was working as a waiter/barman back in the student days. At the end of each month I earned more from tips than salary. Why? Because I always went the extra mile to satisfy customers, entertaining them, telling them a joke, compliment, whatever. Telling jokes wasn't part of my job description but I did it anyway. And the only way for customers to let me know they enjoyed me serving them was by giving me tips. And it was an expensive lounge/club so they were charging enough for the beverages/service. I guess the same goes with taxi drivers. They don't have to chat with customers. They drive them from A to B. But most of them do. To some customers, this means a lot - and they show their gratitude with tips.
- ticks 14y agoI just like everything to be upfront with no hidden costs, rather than having the social pressures of paying for other people's employees. For example, would I receive a lower level of service than new customers if I returned after not tipping?
- dpe82 14y ago> For example, would I receive a lower level of service than new customers if I returned after not tipping? Yes, if: 1) you had no reason not to tip 2) that person still works there 3) that person remembers you Ideally though if the person serving you is bad enough that they aren't getting tipped, they won't be there long. Waitstaff have to report their tips, so management very quickly knows who's bad and should fire them. If the person is good though and you're the lone dick who didn't tip him or her, don't expect good service from that person the next time you're there.
- cperciva 14y agoCharities achieve the same effect with their donation tiers -- people very often donate the minimum for a particular tier. Looking at the FreeBSD Foundation donors page, they've received $148,968 so far this year, and adding up the "minimum donation to be listed in this tier" numbers gets you up to about $144,000. For that matter, I did the same thing -- Tarsnap was towards the top of the 1000-4999 $ range from its December 2011 donation (which due to accounting and postal delays counted as a 2012 donation) and yesterday I said "screw this, let's hit the magic number" and wrote them a check for the remaining amount I needed to be in the $5k+ tier instead. I've seen multiple charitable organizations engage in lengthy debates about whether they should add an $X tier and hope that people below that level will bump up their donations or whether they'd lose too much from people who were currently donating more than $X instead reducing their donation down to $X.
- almond 14y agoThis number is revenue, but don't forget about cost. Cab drivers only started incurring credit card fees when the city made them start taking cards. I tip more when I use my card than when I pay by cash to help the driver offset the few-dollar fees. It's not a very high-margin business.
- PeterisP 14y agoThere shouldn't be any "few-dollar fees". If they are paying more than 3% (i.e., much less than the change in tips) for the card transaction, then they are being robbed blind by the bank and/or corrupt officials.
- pscheufele 14y agoYour math for the $144 million button makes for a good headline, but seems a bit dodgey. Plus, why is this article linked to instead of the New York Times article it references with actual information? WHEN TIP WAS 10%: BASE REVENUE = 82,497 TIP REVENUE = 8,250 TOTAL REVENUE = 90,747 TIP UP TO 22%, ASSUMING SAME BASE REVENUE BASE REVENUE = 82,497 TIP REVENUE = 18,149 TOTAL REVENUE = 100,646 TIP REVENUE INCREASE = 9,899 CREDIT CARD FEE AT 1% = 1,006 2% = 2,012 3% = 3,018 4% = 4,024 5% = 5,030 13,267 CABS LETS ASSUME THAT EVERY FARE WERE PAID WITH CC. ASSUME 5% CC FEE, BECAUSE THE NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE SAYS "higher tips are tempered by a 5 percent service fee applied to fares that are paid with plastic," TOTAL REVENUE, LESS CREDIT CARDS = 95,616 TOTAL TIP INCREASE = ~131.3 MILLION TOTAL CC FEES = ~66.7 MILLION TOTAL INCREASE FOR CABS, LESS CC FEES = ~64.4 MILLION Now, since the credit card tips are going to have to be fully declared for tax purposes, since they will come back to cab drivers in paychecks and with 5% of the TOTAL FARE taken out, I would actually guess cab drivers are seeing LESS MONEY than they were before the credit card machines were installed. I would bet that the 10% tip average pre-card machine is actually low based on undeclared cash tips, and having tax taken on a full 22% will drop the net significantly. When factoring in credit card fees and taxes, cab drivers are probably making less on this deal. But hey, at least Visa and MasterCard must be psyched. NYT: Told of the statistics that showed higher tips, some drivers scoffed. “I know that’s not true,” said William Lindauer, a driver and coordinating member of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance. “They get no tips, or less tips.”
- homosaur 14y agoPeople like to pimp their own blogs on here, which is basically only a half step up from liking your own posts on Facebook.
- djacobs 14y agoI'm not sure that sharing on HN is analogous to liking on FB.
- powera 14y agoWhy are you using all-caps? The tax and credit card implications are irrelevant to the point of the linked article, which is about the framing / convenience aspect of having suggested tip percentages. Whether taxi drivers are making more money from credit cards (and you seem to have an interest in believing they aren't) is orthogonal to whether tip suggestions help them make more money.
- sdfjkl 14y agoThe lesson here is that default settings are very important and you should spend some thought on them.
- sparknlaunch12 14y agoWhy the increase? Thoughts: 1) Easier and quicker to push options (20/30/40%) than key in lower amount. 2) Pre set options may lead to mistakes. 3) Customer doesn't want to embarrass themselves by entering an anoint so just pushes a button. 4) The average fare and average cash in hand leads to per tips versus card payment. Eg Avg fare $9 and most payments with a $10 note. 5) Customers willing to tip higher due to preference towards card payments. 6) Peak in typing due to early adopters using technology.
- paulgb 14y agoThe figures are based on the tips that were reported by drivers. Drivers have an incentive to under-report cash tips (income that's not reported can't be taxed), but not credit-card tips (which can easily be audited). It's possible that drivers aren't earning more, they're just reporting more.
- kevincennis 14y agoGood. Call. That was my initial reaction when I read this too.
- droithomme 14y agoIf you're forced to pay a minimum 20% "tip", it's not a tip.
- superchink 14y agoYou’re not forced. You can enter any amount you wish. It's merely a convenience.