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US not hiding aliens or UFO technology from the public, Pentagon says
- d1sxeyes 3y agoWell they WOULD say that, wouldn’t they?
- techwiz137 3y agoWell yes, but think about this way. Why would a UFO crash? Why do UFOs always seem to crash in reports? It seems a bit unlikely that an advanced craft that can levitate without propulsion and travel across stars would just crash or be taken down by a missile or at the time of the 50s by artillery shells. A bit like a less advanced tribe from Africa shooting arrows at an F35 and taking it down. Secondly even if it was a UFO of extraterrestrial origin, I would imagine upon crashing or sensing it is in danger, it would send a beacon to whoever sent it, alerting our presence to whatever. And this could easily be perceived as an act of war. Next best thing is, Earth technology is more advanced than we are led to believe. At least military-wise.
- ponector 3y agoTribes shooting down F35? A pair of gees will be enough to ground a F35! Not a good example, F35 is advanced but brittle machine.
- mike_hearn 3y ago> Why would a UFO crash? Malfunction, unanticipated conditions or pilot error, same reason human craft crash. > Why do UFOs always seem to crash in reports? They don't. I'm struggling to think of any UFO claim that ends in a crash except for Roswell. Almost always UFO sightings end with it disappearing, often by appearing to make sudden apparently impossible accelerations. > It seems a bit unlikely that an advanced craft that can levitate without propulsion and travel across stars would just crash or be taken down by a missile or at the time of the 50s by artillery shells. It's doubtful that Earth has been visited by UFOs but if we had been, this seems like an extremely likely outcome to me! Think about the horrific engineering challenge that would be faced by any alien spacefaring race on inventing an FTL drive: they need to create a ship that can travel vast distances, handle almost any kind of planetary conditions found on arrival, deal with completely unknown alien technology (ours) and presumably there's some pretty harsh stealth requirements in there too. Frankly that sounds like a recipe for constant disasters as they figure out how to balance all those requirements. I think the intuition here is that because our current physics says FTL is impossible, if an alien race were able to do it that'd imply a godlike level of perfection. This seems like a very dubious assumption. If FTL is possible then we don't know how hard it is or how many breakthroughs are required to get there. It's conceivable that an alien race might develop an FTL drive whilst being only slightly more advanced than ourselves. It's certainly not obvious why this specific invention implies unlimited technological capability in every imaginable field, which isn't something usually posited for any other kind of discovery.
- d1sxeyes 3y agoDoes not necessarily need to be FTL. It may be a generational ship, or potentially simply these aliens have very long lifespans, and travelling the cosmos is not a problem for them, because they anyway measure their lifespan in millennia. I agree with you though, no reason to assume that these aliens would have definitely solved all of the engineering challenges visiting a planet might pose, especially considering our own track record shows that we are relatively good at getting stuff to its destination in the solar system, but not so great at low altitude manoeuvres or landings when we get there. (to be clear, I don’t think that we’ve been visited by aliens, just that it doesn’t seem to be impossible).
- pseufaux 3y agoWelp...I'm convinced. Time to pack up and go home.
- delichon 3y agoI hope you enjoyed your visit. Please be kind enough to disclose the cure for cancer before you go.
- 082349872349872 3y agoHave you seen blue skies through the tears? Free, to try and find a game, Cards for sorrow, cards for pain
- xorxor101 3y ago[flagged]
- thriftwy 3y agoThe UFO talk seems to occuring when the USA needs to distract attention from other things.
- krapp 3y agoIf that were what was happening, wouldn't this report claim the opposite of what it does? Wouldn't it conclude aliens are definitely real and people should absolutely be worried about them?
- thriftwy 3y agoThat one's for Christmas.
- saalweachter 3y agoEh, it's more an outgrowth of the rise of the conspiracy mindset, IMO. There's an old canard in the skeptical community that no one ever believes one conspiracy theory. You start out believing in one conspiracy for reasons, and it opens a floodgates to where every other conspiracy theory starts to seem perfectly plausible. And people might have been pushed into earlier conspiracy theories on their journey to full blown nutjob for political reasons, but by the time you get to UFOs it's usually pure organic "well why NOT?"
- JKCalhoun 3y ago> UFO talk seems to occuring when the USA needs to distract attention > it's more an outgrowth of the rise of the conspiracy mindset Certainly could be a relationship there.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ivandenysov 3y ago> and that it has conspired since the 1940s to keep this effort hidden from the United States congress and the American public. > reviewed all official government investigatory efforts since 1945 One could interpret these two statements as “We found UFOs between 1940 and 1945”.
- jebarker 3y agoThat's a big stretch, since 1940s includes 1945. Also, I think the Pentagon was busy with something else in the 1940-1945 time frame.
- hackerlight 3y agoOne of the claims that's very popular is that alien tech was smuggled out of fascist Italy before WW2
- bookofjoe 3y agohttps://nypost.com/2023/06/13/pentagon-whistleblower-claims-vatican-helped-us-retrive-ufo-from-mussolini/ https://nypost.com/2023/06/13/pentagon-whistleblower-claims-...
- hackerlight 3y agoThe alleged conspiracy is deeper than that. It involves the Vatican and multiple friendly and rival foreign nations stretching back decades. By David Grusch's own admission. What did Gorbachev see?
- wslh 3y agoGood that this is in the first page of a critical, based on factual data, and smart HN community. I am "agnostic" and ignorant in this topic but beyond complot theories is there something substantial or interesting to look at related to possible alien visits? I am not asking on a pro UFO subreddit tough.
- krapp 3y agoI've always found the alien encounter/abduction phenomenon interesting as folklore and myth. Aliens are basically faeries and goblins for a post-industrial, technological zeitgeist. Unfortunately there's a lot of racist and antisemitic undertones behind a lot of it, particularly the reptilian and ancient astronaut stuff.
- yungporko 3y agothere isn't really any (publicly available) evidence at all supporting alien visits that i know of. i like to read the ufo theories and stuff for fun but generally even the extremely compelling ones start to fall apart when you dig deep enough into them. the one thing that is actual fact is that there have been numerous cases of reliable witnesses reporting unidentified objects doing weird stuff in the sky which haven't been explained, but that's probably a lot more likely to mean a million other things before it means aliens. personally i'm in the "alien life definitely exists but it probably hasn't been here" camp, but i've never seen a convincing debunk of the nimitz tic tac uap. again though, it's not evidence of alien visitors, it's just evidence that some people saw something weird.
- keepamovin 3y agoI guess it all depends on your priors. If 1000 witnesses came to you saying their personal witness testimony that they were raped by someone matching description X. And some of those witnesses corroborated events related by other witnesses. I can't say for sure for you specifically, but I guess you'd believe these witnesses. I'm even more certain that a court, and a jury would believe these 1000 witnesses. The priors help support that. But when 100,000 people come forward saying they saw a craft/ were abducted/saw an alien, it's still considered unlikely. The only difference is your priors. If the government confirmed NHI presence and activity on Earth tomorrow, your priors would likely be updated, and you'd re-evaluate your assessment of all that other witness testimony! :)
- greentimer 3y ago[flagged]
- gonzo41 3y agoHavana Syndrome is like how cops are dropping dead from contact with fentanyl. Except cops aren't doing that, and Havana Syndrome isn't real.
- llamaLord 3y agoIMO it's more likely that they're a very carefully orchestrated piece of "deterrence theatre" on the part of the USA. It's not outside the bounds of possibility for the US to have some kind of "trump card" technology that makes building UAP like things possible. Now imagine you're a nation state with that kind of tech. You actually WANT your adversaries to know you've got it, otherwise it's a useless deterrent. But at the same time, you don't want them to know too much about it, because they could copy it. So something like UAP's should be the excellent model for how to disclose their existence.
- exe34 3y agoYou'd think this kind of deterrent would put Iran and Russia off from doing their usual shenanigans?
- jeffrallen 3y ago"Hens in no danger from foxes", foxes say. :)
- llamaLord 3y agoIt's interesting that this report seems VERY scoped to specifically looking for things of "extra-terrestrial" origin. Like, I get that most of the headlines about this stuff get clicks by talking about "zomg aliens", but everything I've read on this topic that ever seemed even slightly credible has tended to lean more towards these UAP's being totally terrestrial phenomena, just utilising one specific technological capability that we are not aware humans have developed (the ability to somehow manipulate the relativistic mass of an object within a given space). IMO that's a much more likely scenario than reverse engineered aliens.
- asimovfan 3y agoi think thats so futuristic that its basically as likely as aliens
- techwiz137 3y agoI guess it could be possible that a key discovery in physics may have been withheld from the general public.
- llamaLord 3y agoThis is kinda my point, we see something like a UAP and we assume it's enormously advanced technology compared to what we know, but the reality is, what we've "seen" is only one major discovery in physics ahead of where we are today. To someone in 1850, the concept of the atomic bomb, a technology that would give humans the power to end all life on earth, would have seemed unfathomably more advanced than their understanding of human capabilities.
- ethbr1 3y agoThat seems implausible. If a government invented the Newcomen steam engine, but kept it secret... what would happen? (a) There would have been far slower development, because as many ideas wouldn't have been tried, because it was secret. (b) There would have been mysterious black box engines wherever it was used, or power sheds with big DO NOT ENTER signs. Point being, you can't have a secret technology AND have it develop at the pace of an open technology AND use it. Specifically for aerospace/engine applications, the government would use the craft for... what? Can't fly it where it might be shot down. Can't fly it over populated areas. What the heck do they do with it that's useful?
- muglug 3y agoIt's just so unfathomably unlikely that aliens would (a) be able to and (b) actually care sufficiently to visit our planet. Faster-than-light travel breaks all our current long-established & well-tested physics. But sure, Jan, some aliens really did stick a probe up your butt.
- lagrange77 3y agoAnd it's hilariously more unlikely, that a civilisation that accomplishes a) and b), suddenly experiences a warp piston seizure in earth orbit, crashes and gets captured by some apes.
- saalweachter 3y agoI've long thought it would be hilarious if the only evidence we had of alien life was 8 seconds of panicked alien screaming/swearing over radio, a crater in Minnesota, and some small fragments of strange alloys.
- junon 3y agoSeth MacFarlane picked up on the absurdity of this long ago with Roger, the bisexual alien from American Dad. Somewhere in the series, we find out Roger long since thought he was an "important" alien sent to earth for an important purpose. He then finds out he is really just a crash test dummy replacement.
- JKCalhoun 3y agoAll three points are legitimate. Embarrassing to have that level of tech and then "his tiny boat sparked as he turned to graze our city..."
- lagrange77 3y agoI like your blog!
- 3y ago
- underlogic 3y agoYou know what's more terrifying than aliens? That we might be the only life in the universe and not in a simulation. Could base reality planet earth be the only conscious experience? Is it possible things are exactly as we experience them?
- techwiz137 3y agoI mean it means more land for us I guess.
- JKCalhoun 3y agoHa ha, but seriously, it may also suggest that we'll flicker out in an instant like all other species that got this far.
- firesteelrain 3y agoIf there ever was a species that got this far. See: Great Filter
- api 3y agoIt means if we fail there is nothing.
- jonplackett 3y agoTwo possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. - Arthur C. Clarke
- airstrike 3y agoIntelligent* life may exist elsewhere and just never be able or inclined to reach us. Say we find out there's intelligent life as close to us as Alpha Centauri. It would still take us probably 100,000+ years to get there with current technology, so why even bother traveling? Even sending a probe would take thousands of years.
- 3y ago
- typeofhuman 3y agoIf aliens visit earth why would they only reveal themselves to the US Government? Surely they'd make their presence obvious to all not just some arbitrary, abstract group of us.
- kingkawn 3y agoTry reading Left Hand of Darkness to understand why they might try to slowly introduce themselves via a local governing body
- jebarker 3y agoI suppose the idea is that only the US Government has sufficient technology to detect the aliens.
- artursapek 3y agoThey have. Watch "The Phenomenon"
- krapp 3y agoTo be fair, it is a worldwide phenomenon[0,...], it's just most active in the US. Most likely because it's a primarily US pop-cultural phenomenon and the rest of the world absorbs it through cultural osmosis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varginha_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varginha_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanfretta_UFO_Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanfretta_UFO_Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronezh_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronezh_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Cargo_Flight_1628_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Cargo_Flight_1... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_School_UFO_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_School_UFO_incident
- speak_plainly 3y agoFrom what I’ve heard, it’s a terminological issue. Asking if the government is hiding products of inter-dimensional entities might yield a different answer. You have to use some very narrow or exact terminology.
- delichon 3y ago"Asking if the government is hiding products of inter-dimensional entities might yield a different answer." ...for a hypothetical government agency that would hesitate to keep secrets or tell lies. There might even be such a thing, somewhere, we can't totally discount the possibility. But that's hard to imagine for a military-adjacent unit.
- nocsi 3y agoPeople like to be broad, especially in FOIA requests considering each request is a query and could take months to get a response. If you’re asking broadly then you might get lucky. But I think you’re right, it’s time for a perspective shift. Ask not about the government hiding Aliens - ask about the aliens hiding from the government.
- h2odragon 3y agoOne of those occasions I agree with Tyler Cowen: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/03/the-new-uaps-report.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/03/th... > What you won’t find in this report is any mention of Nimitz, Gimbal, or any of the other more puzzling cases about observed objects — on multiple sensors with independent verifications — that defy current explanation. > So overall there is no reason to revise whatever your current views might be, at least provided those views were not the crazy ones in the first place.
- Cacti 3y agoSo if you believed the plasma is from UFOs and not just another black project, you are welcome to keep believing this? That makes zero sense. I would imagine an alien civilization playing tag with the USN would have shown up on other locations or observations. The fact that these observations associated with the USN aren’t collaborated anywhere else in this reported is a good indication they are not from aliens, and one SHOULD absolutely revise ones opinion about the reddit hoopla over some plasma weapons. Which was, frankly, always wildly unsupported. The only way that this report is unrelated to the USN stuff is if you choose to believe it’s unrelated. In reality this is just yet more evidence that aliens aren’t like hanging out off the coast of California. For which there has never been any evidence, unless you count speculation as evidence. Repeat after me: there are no little green men playing flashlight tag off of southern california. The USN is doing weapons tests. The haven’t confirmed it because, you know, it’s a black project.
- h2odragon 3y agoHow about this interpretation? There's so much bullshit being spewed by all participants in the debate that finding out any Truth is going to require personal effort beyond what I care to expend. Therefore, I will continue to believe (on this subject) that I Do Not Know wtf is going on. The best part of the "UFO" debate, for me, is the flames and the fervor of all these folks who really, really need to convince others that they're right. On both sides. And What if they are? It still ain't gonna patch the roof or plow the back 40. (I'm in the "crazy views" section of the audience, i guess)
- I_am_tiberius 3y agoIf alien technology were to reach Earth, it would probably be so advanced that we wouldn't recognize it. It's plausible that extraterrestrials capable of interstellar travel would no longer be biological entities. They might instead use drones, possibly engineered to be so small that they evade our detection.
- exe34 3y agoI've always liked the idea that bacteria form one super intelligence and they decide who lives and who dies. At one point they poisoned the atmosphere to kill off the original dwellers so that we could evolve.
- waihtis 3y agoUFO subreddits claim AARO is purposefully set at a too low classification level to actually find any of this data. I do not have the knowledge whether the claim is true or not nor do I understand the USGOV classification system, but would like to hear from anyone that can shed light on it.
- pwillia7 3y agoThey're all too woo-woo still -- The only weird/interesting thing was that ex NASA and blink182 (WHAT?!) group that was founded a while back, but that seems like nothing came of it... Everyone has cell phone cameras, so it seems unlikely we'd have 0 footage of anything. This Netflix show's first episode was the spookiest real evidence I've seen -- A guy got a bunch of first hand accounts of faster than we can travel objects and then FOIA-d the government to get ATC tower data and corroborated it.[1] 1: https://www.netflix.com/title/81489034 https://www.netflix.com/title/81489034
- RajT88 3y ago> Everyone has cell phone cameras, so it seems unlikely we'd have 0 footage of anything. I appreciate this argument, but the tech is not so good you can effectively take highly zoomed in shots of fast moving objects and have it be really visible. Try it some time. My Pixel 8 is impressive, but I still do not feel it produces better video than my (middle-aged) eyes can see at objects in the sky.
- Animats 3y agoThe GEODSS system has been looking for un-identified space objects since the 1980s. Only three sites are still running, though; there were once seven or so. It still finds most of the near-earth asteroids. The USAF's 15th Space Surveillance Squadron runs the three remaining sites. Each location has a pair of telescopes some distance apart, with CCD sensors and computer control. They scan the sky each night, record data, and automatically compare that with star catalogs and catalogs of orbital objects. New objects are logged. Because there are two coordinated telescopes some distance apart, distance can be obtained by triangulation. That's good out to earth orbit. That's how the US finds new satellites. Interestingly, it can detect dark objects. If something blocks a star, that's noticed, because the system has a star catalog. If something blocks a star from view by both telescopes, and the star field in that area is otherwise normal, that's a hit. Not well known is that GEODSS has a light source. One of the telescopes can use a laser to illuminate satellites, so the other telescope can take a better picture. If something is up there orbiting on a regular basis, GEODSS will detect it. This is where automated, computerized astronomy began. MIT's Lincoln Lab operates LINEAR, which is a similar system using 1990s technology.[2] About 90% of near earth object discoveries came from LINEAR. This was kind of discouraging for amateur astronomers, who used to discover and report such objects. LINEAR did that automatically, in bulk. There's a lot of automated sky-watching going on. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Surveillance_Network#Ground-based_Electro-Optical_Deep_Space_Surveillance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Surveillan... [2] https://archive.ll.mit.edu/publications/journal/pdf/vol11_no1/11_1linear.pdf https://archive.ll.mit.edu/publications/journal/pdf/vol11_no...
- keepamovin 3y agoThat's cool information. I wonder what makes these systems ineffective for capturing UFOs? Is their output completely open access and uncensored? Do they have sensitivity in IR? Do they have an ability to capture / disambiguate extremely fast moving objects close to Earth? There are other classified space systems that operate further out. But the public data on UAP says they are detected coming in "above 80,000 feet", which would be too low for these satellites to detect, I guess? I suppose if it was like star trek and there were space ships just floating around the solar system, and hanging out at Jupiter Station or whatever, these systems would get it. Do these systems have any blind spots or blind areas of the sky that they don't cover? Are they radars or visual systems?
- bookofjoe 3y agoIt's really hard to prove a negative.
- tejohnso 3y agoCertain members of congress have been briefed and are on record as being very concerned. Something is up. Whether they are called Aliens, or UFOs, or otherwise, something is there that is being kept from people. "Today the Pentagon and its current UAP investigative program, AARO, issued a public report that is intentionally dishonest, inaccurate, and dangerously misleanding. This report only makes it more abundantly clear to Congress that they must take more legistlative action to demand transparency." - Lue Elizondo https://twitter.com/LueElizondo/status/1766231733236584545 https://twitter.com/LueElizondo/status/1766231733236584545 "The United States government has gathered a great deal of information about UAPs over many decades but has refused to share it with the American people. That is wrong." - Chuck Schumer, senate majority leader "This new report is not going to satisfy anyone. To begin with, it is a case of the DoD and the IC investigating themselves without even the independence that Inspectors General enjoy. Obviously, there is a huge potential conflict of interest. Imagine a small office at the DoD trying to investigate the Iran-Contra affair. Congress did a great job with that inquiry, something that would have likely been a whitewash if the Executive had tried to investigate itself." - Christopher K. Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
- ejb999 3y agoI tend to think this is true - but then again, if they were hiding something from the public, this is exactly what they would say...
- tamaharbor 3y agoI have always thought the alien’s Space Travel Budget would be the limiting factor here.
- DueDilligence 3y ago[dead]
- keepamovin 3y agoI guess the government may not be hiding them (at least up to the level of their oversight ability), but defence most contractors certainly are. AARO is project blue book/condon committee all over again. Ostensible investigation, directed to reach a negative conclusion^0? Theatre to deal with public momentum and rising interest in a topic deemed too scary to broach, by persuading people there's nothing to see. It's sad that the US turns so much obvious disinformation at its own citizens. The ultimate effect of this is not to protect national security, but to very effectively undermine it. Aside from disinformation efforts like AARO (or we can say that AARO has been infested with, or strong-armed by the counterintelligence camp, even if it is not entirely a disinfo effort), another aspect is that actual sincere government oversight investigation is thwarted by multiple layers of obfuscation: - investigators may not have the correct title 50 and title 10 accesses to request info - info may be prevented from any public disclosure by the atomic secrets act - investigators with authority to access records may be denied by those who hold the records - records may be in black programs / SAPs the existence of which cannot be revealed to investigators - the records may be put outside of any government oversight at all by moving them into beyond black programs: the corporate/contractor side of an actual black budget/bigoted SAP - reactive security: if a SAP/program name is revealed outside the bigot list, it is immediately disbanded, given a new identity, and restarted, making it hard to pin down (similar to how shell companies work, I guess) - contractors / privates that hold recovered materials don't want to divulge in order to protect potential future profits. I get that, and think it's fair, but it should function like patents: you get your 20 years, and if you can't work it within that time, it goes public. If we had that policy, most of the stuff would already be out. The ultimate point is to keep information that should be studied and widely understood secret. The reason to do this, I think, is because the truth is too embarrassing for governments to reveal, not because it is too 'shocking' for the public to accept: - non-humans are interacting, mostly covertly, with Earth and our governments cannot coordinate effective defence. In other words, our Earth governments are not the top dog, and cannot fulfill their mandate to protect us. Such failure is unlikely to be admitted, and would conceivably lead to a crisis of confidence in the authorities. - this NHI tech is way advanced of our tech, and despite decades of study, we have no capability to reproduce, no answers, nothing to be proud of, nor show off. So, we're not the smartest, and our technology and understanding is very inferior in comparison. Again, this is pretty embarrassing for governments to admit. I think it's incredibly sad that national security as used here, appears to be securing the national leadership from embarrassment, rather than the nation from threats. The strategic weakness of this approach makes the sense of failure all the more acute: we could most effectively study and understand that tech in the open; and we could most effectively prepare a defense to hostile NHI by public awareness and education. Yet, it seems as if, in order to protect their organizations from the embarrassment of their failure, they are selling out everyone else and our future. Not to mention the other major strategic failure: by keeping secret the activities of an infiltrating and invading force, you effectively run cover for their covert activities, in effect collaborating with them. I find this attitude of our government, and defense contractors, charged as they are with our protection, to be the most disgusting aspect of the face-saving secrecy policy they continue to unwisely employ in their fear. At best, it's primitive human psychology, not befitting of people who should make these big decisions that affect the world. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condon_Committee#:~:text=In%20late%20January%201967%2C%20Condon%20stated%20in%20a%20lecture%20that%20he%20thought%20the%20government%20should%20not%20study%20UFOs%20because%20the%20subject%20was%20%27nonsense%27%2C%20adding%2C%20%22but%20I%27m%20not%20supposed%20to%20reach%20that%20conclusion%20for%20another%20year.%22%5B2%5D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condon_Committee#:~:text=In%20...
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y agoThey finally realized that UFOs are basically Russian MHD crafts
- boring-alterego 3y agoWhat an odd thing to say