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In my rather controversial yet experienced opinion (I work with many kids), these kids develop the way they do as a result of bad parenting and improper/inadequ

In my rather controversial yet experienced opinion (I work with many kids), these kids develop the way they do as a result of bad parenting and improper/inadequate attention from adults. The majority of kids who display anti-social behaviors also tend to be the most intelligent students. This is even more true of the kids who exhibit highly manipulative behaviors. I've worked with hundreds of students, and I've never come across a student who I would pin as incapable of empathy. They might be able to turn that empathy switch off, but with appropriate attention from an adult, they can turn it on just as easily. And keep it on if they want. I think a lot of the behaviors exhibited by the kid in this article are rooted in basic human emotion and tendency. First of all, manipulation is something that is enjoyable. You might claim me to be a psychopath for that statement, but who doesn't enjoy a good troll every now and then? Especially when the manipulations are harmless, it can be fun to toy with somebody else for a bit. Second, these kids 'are good at getting what they want.' That's another obvious benefit to manipulation: you can get most situations to work out in your favor. Furthermore, the behaviors of anger and revenge are typical human behaviors. These kids stand out in the way that their emotions are much more extreme, and they rarely exhibit empathy (at least, in front of the researchers. In my experiences with hundreds of kids, I've found that everybody has the capacity for empathy). But I see this mostly as a result of their intelligence. Initially, they get bored with the standard activities. So they find other ways to entertain themselves, for example, they take apart the gate that keeps them from leaving their room. The problems start happening when the adults respond in frustration and anger. Yes, this kid broke the rules, and yes, this kid is doing something that you don't want him or her to be doing, but that's because you aren't stimulating this kid properly. S/he got bored. These kids start to lose their empathy when they are repeatedly told to 'sit down and behave.' or 'do this for this long and you'll get a reward.' Ultimately, they stop caring about the reward, because they are human and they eventually conclude that freedom is more enjoyable than a piece of candy (or a gameboy, or anything you want to offer them in return for docile behavior. A gameboy might do the trick if the kid isn't used to big rewards, but in all liklihod, if you're offering the kid a gameboy for 1 weekend of good behavior, you've struggle through this route before and the kid already has something that's comparable to a gameboy). And so the kid remorselessly misbehaves. The kid knows what they are losing out on, but they don't care because they ALSO realize what they are gaining by doing their own thing. The real problem, in my (once again, experienced but controversial and incomplete) opinion, occurs when you take a highly intelligent child and try to mold them into a specific shape, and tell them to do specific things. These kids have creative energy that they want to spend, and if you don't give them an outlet, they will find their own outlet. And then the REAL problems start to occur when their 'creative output' is met with anger and frustration. These kids start to become hateful and antisocial (we're talking over the course of years, not months or weeks) because that's all they are ever treated with. Showing them compassion for behaving doesn't do anything for them, because they don't want to behave, they want to get creative and do their own thing. And I've found that taking these kids and giving them a creative way to spend their energy, and then rewarding them for doing what they want to do goes miles and miles with these kids. (I'm not talking about physical rewards here, I'm talking about approval.) The other thing I've found that really helps is being sympathetic towards a kid after he's done something wrong. For example, when a kid deliberately lets all of the family pets run away or does something else destructive, you can win tons of respect from the kid simply by not blowing up at him, and not punishing him. When you take the side of the kid, and start working to help him, he starts to reciprocate your empathy. I'd be happy to argue this point with anybody who has doubts or counter points. I have some formal education in psychology (3 college level courses), but most of my comfort comes from being around kids all of the time, and having common situations where a kid tells me I'm the only adult that understands them.

pbhjpbhj 14y ago
>they don't want to behave, they want to get creative and do their own thing // That's not going to get them far in life outside of their family homes and the basic education system. A certain degree of decorum is required for a functioning society. >For example, when a kid deliberately lets all of the family pets run away or does something else destructive, you can win tons of respect from the kid simply by not blowing up at him, and not punishing him. When you take the side of the kid, and start working to help him, he starts to reciprocate your empathy. // It sounds like my experience is far more limited that yours, and is mainly of boys in the 7-11 age range. However when I've attempted to be understanding of a child’s misbehavior it has usually resulted in being taken advantage of. There is no longer any 'real' consequence to misbehavior (to the childs mind) other than being talked to and empathised with; that this, contrary to your suggestion, breeds a total lack of respect. Of course this could be an age related change or pertinent to the group dynamics of a situation (or something else entirely). I'd certainly expect older children to be more likely to respond to an empathetic manner. Could you give some details as to your age, the kids age and the setting in which you "work with many kids"? It sounds like the setting is a particular rigid and unstimulating school?? >rewarding them for doing what they want to do goes miles and miles // If you did what you wanted then you've already had your reward. So what are you reinforcing by adding further reward? The notion that they should continue to do whatever they like and that only narcissism - by which I mean self-pleasing behaviour - is really worth while??
- PaperclipTaken 14y ago
  I'm 19, and I work with kids in 2 primary settings: Sunday School at my church (2 hours a week all through high school, maybe 100 different kids total), and as a martial arts instructor (~3-7 hours per week all through high school, 500+ different kids total.). The age range is 4-12 usually. I work with older kids too but I tend not to understand them nearly as well. Sunday School is a mostly open environment. There are roughly 45 minutes within a 2 hour service where they are expected to sit down and listen, and the rest of the time they can pretty much do what they want (with the standard 'be nice, share, don't do anything dangerous' set of rules). The martial arts school is much more formal and restricting. Kids are given time to be creative, but mostly we keep them occupied doing explicit activities. I have little experience in a home environment. This hadn't occurred to me before, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head. > when I've attempted to be understanding of a child’s misbehavior it has usually resulted in being taken advantage of. There is no longer any 'real' consequence to misbehavior (to the childs mind) other than being talked to and empathised with; that this, contrary to your suggestion, breeds a total lack of respect. That's a fine line that a lot of people struggle with, and I'm having trouble explaining myself. The thing about respect is that there is a difference between demonstrated respect and internal respect. The key with being understanding of a child's misbehavior is doing it to earn the child's internal respect. The next steps with that child is to show them constructive ways to spend their energy, instead of destructive ways. This is more complicated, because you may have to invent exercises for the child (such as, find a way to do x as fast as possible). In my martial arts school, one of the most common ways to handle boredom/misbehavior is to let the bored kid teach a student who doesn't fully understand the curriculum yet. It usually works because the kid feels responsibility, feels challenged, and feels appreciated. (and usually we pair them with someone younger who we already know they enjoy being around. We wouldn't pair them with a kid they are known to quarrel with). > If you did what you wanted then you've already had your reward. So what are you reinforcing by adding further reward? The notion that they should continue to do whatever they like and that only narcissism - by which I mean self-pleasing behaviour - is really worth while?? Ultimately, yes. But you couple it with teaching that the bigger long term reward is better than the smaller quick reward. And then, you couple it with a constructive activity. Being constructive feels good. Being appreciated (presumably derived from being helpful) also feels good. So you show that to a kid. And you give them ways to be constructive and helpful that doesn't have them sitting in class bored because they already know the curriculum. Furthermore, being disapproved of feels bad. Even if you are not upset with misbehavior, there are most likely other people who are upset with the child's misbehavior, and this feels bad. When a child misbehaves, s/he is most likely not misbehaving because it feels good. S/he is probably misbehaving because it feels less bad than being bored or conforming to something they don't like doing. Again, this can be solved by showing the child something they can do that is entertaining to them and also not misbehaving or destructive.

pbhjpbhj 14y ago

>they don't want to behave, they want to get creative and do their own thing // That's not going to get them far in life outside of their family homes and the basic education system. A certain degree of decorum is required for a functioning society. >For example, when a kid deliberately lets all of the family pets run away or does something else destructive, you can win tons of respect from the kid simply by not blowing up at him, and not punishing him. When you take the side of the kid, and start working to help him, he starts to reciprocate your empathy. // It sounds like my experience is far more limited that yours, and is mainly of boys in the 7-11 age range. However when I've attempted to be understanding of a child’s misbehavior it has usually resulted in being taken advantage of. There is no longer any 'real' consequence to misbehavior (to the childs mind) other than being talked to and empathised with; that this, contrary to your suggestion, breeds a total lack of respect. Of course this could be an age related change or pertinent to the group dynamics of a situation (or something else entirely). I'd certainly expect older children to be more likely to respond to an empathetic manner. Could you give some details as to your age, the kids age and the setting in which you "work with many kids"? It sounds like the setting is a particular rigid and unstimulating school?? >rewarding them for doing what they want to do goes miles and miles // If you did what you wanted then you've already had your reward. So what are you reinforcing by adding further reward? The notion that they should continue to do whatever they like and that only narcissism - by which I mean self-pleasing behaviour - is really worth while??

PaperclipTaken 14y ago
I'm 19, and I work with kids in 2 primary settings: Sunday School at my church (2 hours a week all through high school, maybe 100 different kids total), and as a martial arts instructor (~3-7 hours per week all through high school, 500+ different kids total.). The age range is 4-12 usually. I work with older kids too but I tend not to understand them nearly as well. Sunday School is a mostly open environment. There are roughly 45 minutes within a 2 hour service where they are expected to sit down and listen, and the rest of the time they can pretty much do what they want (with the standard 'be nice, share, don't do anything dangerous' set of rules). The martial arts school is much more formal and restricting. Kids are given time to be creative, but mostly we keep them occupied doing explicit activities. I have little experience in a home environment. This hadn't occurred to me before, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head. > when I've attempted to be understanding of a child’s misbehavior it has usually resulted in being taken advantage of. There is no longer any 'real' consequence to misbehavior (to the childs mind) other than being talked to and empathised with; that this, contrary to your suggestion, breeds a total lack of respect. That's a fine line that a lot of people struggle with, and I'm having trouble explaining myself. The thing about respect is that there is a difference between demonstrated respect and internal respect. The key with being understanding of a child's misbehavior is doing it to earn the child's internal respect. The next steps with that child is to show them constructive ways to spend their energy, instead of destructive ways. This is more complicated, because you may have to invent exercises for the child (such as, find a way to do x as fast as possible). In my martial arts school, one of the most common ways to handle boredom/misbehavior is to let the bored kid teach a student who doesn't fully understand the curriculum yet. It usually works because the kid feels responsibility, feels challenged, and feels appreciated. (and usually we pair them with someone younger who we already know they enjoy being around. We wouldn't pair them with a kid they are known to quarrel with). > If you did what you wanted then you've already had your reward. So what are you reinforcing by adding further reward? The notion that they should continue to do whatever they like and that only narcissism - by which I mean self-pleasing behaviour - is really worth while?? Ultimately, yes. But you couple it with teaching that the bigger long term reward is better than the smaller quick reward. And then, you couple it with a constructive activity. Being constructive feels good. Being appreciated (presumably derived from being helpful) also feels good. So you show that to a kid. And you give them ways to be constructive and helpful that doesn't have them sitting in class bored because they already know the curriculum. Furthermore, being disapproved of feels bad. Even if you are not upset with misbehavior, there are most likely other people who are upset with the child's misbehavior, and this feels bad. When a child misbehaves, s/he is most likely not misbehaving because it feels good. S/he is probably misbehaving because it feels less bad than being bored or conforming to something they don't like doing. Again, this can be solved by showing the child something they can do that is entertaining to them and also not misbehaving or destructive.