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Mexico got rid of daylight saving time. Should the U.S. end it, too?
- emchammer 3y agoYes.
- torstenvl 3y agoNo. Get rid of 'Standard' time instead.
- former-aws 3y agoDST is an abomination and must go. It doesn't align with natural circadian rhythms.
- seattle_spring 3y agoHmm I would think the problem is changing the time twice a year? Even if permanent DST was a mismatch to our circadian rhythm, wouldn't that completely depend on how close you are to a date line?
- torstenvl 3y agoThat's the opposite of true. Getting light before the start of the waking hours but getting dark before you're even home—i.e., standard time—is unhealthy. Daylight time aligns to natural circadian rhythms better. Objectively, more people are awake past 5pm than are awake before 7am.
- former-aws 3y agoHumans are the exception. Most animals return home as it gets dark. That is the natural pattern, something we are all primed via evolution. Your personal preference to get more light in the evening because you want to spend more time outdoors runs against evolutionary instincts.
- rags2riches 3y agoPeople are ruled by the numbers on the clock, so we should shift the daylight hours during those hours people are awake to match the natural needs of the people. But from where did the habits tied to the numbers come? Were they formed without reference to daylight? Will most people always sleep before 7am and be awake after 5pm, no matter when there is daylight?
- Izkata 3y ago> and be awake after 5pm, no matter when there is daylight? For this one at least absolutely yes because of work and after-school activities.
- opello 3y agoAnd this exemplifies the political problem that would be better off tossing a coin and being done with it. Because what would be better depends on your position in the time zone and with where in the day one values daylight hours. There's a set of maps (e.g. [1]) that shows sunrise/sunset times by county and explains the variations quite nicely. [1] https://conormclaughlin.net/2022/04/visualizing-the-impact-of-permanent-daylight-savings-time-on-winter-sunrise-and-sunset-times/ https://conormclaughlin.net/2022/04/visualizing-the-impact-o...
- ssl-3 3y agoWe mustn't let perfection get in the way of progress, comrade. Any method is superior to screwing up the clocks twice every year.
- et-al 3y agoAmerica tried this in the 1973: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States#1973%E2%80%931975:_Year-round_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_Un... > Over three months from December to March, public support dropped from 79% to 42%. Some schools moved their start times later.
- tshaddox 3y ago> Some schools moved their start times later. Thus demonstrating clearly that adjusting everyone’s clocks is unnecessary?
- tacomonstrous 3y agoPermanent DST, at least maybe just in New England.
- seattle_spring 3y agoPNW too, please.
- stouset 3y agoFound the counterexample to Betteridge’s Law!
- torstenvl 3y agoPretty sure you didn't.
- tamimio 3y agoStandard or saving time, get rid of the fact you “change” time, it’s stupid and annoying
- magnio 3y agoWhy not just compromise and settle on midway: -4.5, -5.5, -6.5, and -7.5 UTC offset? /0.5s
- downrightmike 3y agoWho hurt you?
- toast0 3y agoA 0.5s timezone is truly abhorrent. Congratulations.
- kalleboo 3y agoThere are places with 15 minute time zones
- kylehotchkiss 3y agoThe same place doesn’t have a rectangular flag too!
- chrisandchris 3y agoActually, there are places (ok, i know of one, Switzerland) which don't have a rectangular flag but only a square one and have regular DST time/timezone.
- inkyoto 3y agoI am afraid you are too late to the party. Because once upon time they could not agree on the choice of either Western or Central time on the border between Western Australia and South Australia, they settled on a real compromise being UTC+08:45 («Australia/Eucla» in the TZ database) which is used in one area in the southeastern corner of Western Australia and one roadhouse in South Australia. That is how real men settle their differences.
- ooterness 3y agoCalifornia had a ballot referendum for permanent DST back in 2018. It passed with nearly 60% voting in favor. And yet we're still changing clocks twice a year... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_Proposition_7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_Proposition_7
- radicality 3y agoI know little of California politics. How do these propositions work / not work ? 60% voted yes, 7M people. For a yes/no vote like this, what’s even the point of holding such a referendum if its result is not guaranteed to be implemented? Apparently it complied with federal law, but was held back because of… I don’t really understand what, but feels undemocratic for the result to be just ignored.
- toast0 3y agoThis one is, IMHO, particularly meaningless. It allows the California legislature to adopt permanent DST, if the federal law allows it. But the federal law currently allows seasonal DST or permanent standard time, not permanent DST. Perhaps, it's useful because 1949's proposition 12 adopted DST in California, but it was superceeded by federal law in 1966; and maybe it wasn't clear if the California legislature could legislate against the will of the people as expressed in 1949; in general, the CA legislature can't overturn voter propositions.
- opello 3y agoThere was an interesting "hack" of changing time zones at the time change points instead of trying to adopt permanent DST, instead of a trigger law for if/when federal law allows permanent DST.
- culopatin 3y agoAnd politicians are that short sighted that didn’t see this coming? If it only allows standard time as the only permanent one and we wanted a permanent why didn’t they just offer the one that would work?
- downrightmike 3y agoYes, but it would only work if it is the actual daylight saving schedule so we're only two hours apart coast to coast. Congress failed to think it through when they tried to do that a couple years ago.
- jjt-yn_t 3y ago[dead]
- thegrim000 3y agoThis is a topic I really just don't understand. I've seen dozens and dozens of articles about it in the last couple of years. The only two possibilities I see are either 1) people actually care about this issue, an issue which I've never in my life given one picogram of thought about, it doesn't affect me in the slightest - twice a year we adjust the clocks by an hour, how does this actually bother a significant chunk of people enough to be upset over it? or 2) the articles are some sort of long-running propaganda campaign pushing the idea for some reason, but I can't for the life of me figure out what they'd gain from it. Is there some sort of political/social power to be gained from getting rid of daylight saving time? Maybe just another "us vs them" divisive issue? I just can't understand it.
- tshaddox 3y agoIt’s a little silly to ask “why do people care so much about this?” I just think changing the time twice a year is worse than…simply not doing that.
- ipqk 3y agoBut is it worse than shifting our daylight hours for the benefit of (almost) everyone? I don't think so.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoIf you work with people around the world it’s maddening for them that meetings shift around to times that no longer work for them. It’s actually a huge PITA and there’s no modern reason to do this. This especially impacts people in remote timezones where the 11pm meeting is now 12am, or worse, the 7am meeting is now 6am. People who work at global companies and are seated outside the US are massively inconvenienced by this absurdity. I’m sure others here will cite the sleep disturbance it causes as well as depression and anxiety due to the sleep disruption. It’s like a tiny jet lag for no practical benefit.
- ipqk 3y agoThe practical benefit is that, in the summer, you take an hour of sunlight that would normal be around 5-6am where almost no one is awake, and you append it to the evening where nearly everyone will happily appreciate it.
- ipqk 3y agoMexico is much farther south, where the daylight hours are more consistent throughout the year. Virtually no countries around the equator have DST. DST is only useful in the mid-latitudes, which is right where the USA is, so comparing Mexico to USA isn't very fruitful.
- culopatin 3y agoWhat’s the usefulness of it? Days are short in winter. Can’t stop that from happening. It’s like having a short blanket and pulling it up to cover your head but you uncover your feet.
- ipqk 3y agoWinter is standard time, so that's your "normal" time with short days, and most people are awake for all sunlight hours — so moving it around doesn't do much. Summer, you take an hour of sunlight from the early morning (somewhere between ~3-7am, depending on time of year and your latitude), and "move" it to the evening where nearly everyone can enjoy it. What your describing with the blanket analogy is exactly what people are proposing with permanent DST in the winter. It will be dark through late morning. The USA tried that once in the 70s for a year, then abandoned it when everyone who initially supported it realized they actually hated it.
- pastureofplenty 3y agoSomeone, perhaps Mark Twain, once said that daylight saving time is like cutting off your head and standing on it to make yourself taller.