4 ms·

This is a problem with all these languages (zig, nim, crystal, D, vlang, etc). They are all neat but the DX is so bad that Java with a good IDE is faster to cod

by winrid 3y ago

This is a problem with all these languages (zig, nim, crystal, D, vlang, etc). They are all neat but the DX is so bad that Java with a good IDE is faster to code in. Zig and Nim with VSCode kind of work. Nim integration is very easy to break, Zig LSP auto complete does weird stuff. Nim's LSP seems to parse whole project from disk on each auto complete so it's slow.

snovymgodym 3y ago
On pure pragmatic grounds, it's really difficult to justify any of these new languages when you compare the tooling and support of those that have either been around longer or have company/institutional support.
- winrid 3y ago
  Yeah. That's why I talk about it. I want people to build good IDE support for Nim :)
archargelod 3y ago
Nim has been on a steady path of improving tooling support[0] since 2.0 release. LSP is a lot more stable now than even a couple months ago. That's what I love from community-driven languages: while BDFL isn't very passionate about tooling, people have spoken and gears are turning to improve it[1]. It also helps that there is a company around (Status) that's using Nim in production and wants to invest money and dev-time[2] in the language. - [0] https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/544 https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/544 - [1] https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10959 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10959 - [2] https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10762 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10762
- winrid 3y ago
  Nice, I'll have to check it out again this year. Might be a good chance to look into Helix, too.
ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
That's why Go is actually perfect. Tooling works great and compile times are super fast. Language is super simple.
- winrid 3y ago
  Go indeed makes it hard to justify languages like Nim. I'm kinda scared I'll like Go so much and then my Java knowledge will quickly decay x)
adamrezich 3y ago
on the other hand, the "Jai" beta is quite good in this regard.
cyber_kinetist 3y ago
I think this is not just a problem with ecosystems, but a consequence of the language design itself. Zig and Nim have extensive meta programming language facilities that making good autocompletion support is a very hard problem, while Java doesn't have such a complicated language design. (The problem with Java though is that it's instead hard to use without an IDE since there's too much boilerplate because of its spartan design).

by winrid 3y ago

snovymgodym 3y ago

On pure pragmatic grounds, it's really difficult to justify any of these new languages when you compare the tooling and support of those that have either been around longer or have company/institutional support.

winrid 3y ago
Yeah. That's why I talk about it. I want people to build good IDE support for Nim :)

archargelod 3y ago

Nim has been on a steady path of improving tooling support[0] since 2.0 release. LSP is a lot more stable now than even a couple months ago. That's what I love from community-driven languages: while BDFL isn't very passionate about tooling, people have spoken and gears are turning to improve it[1]. It also helps that there is a company around (Status) that's using Nim in production and wants to invest money and dev-time[2] in the language. - [0] https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/544 https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/544 - [1] https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10959 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10959 - [2] https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10762 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10762

winrid 3y ago
Nice, I'll have to check it out again this year. Might be a good chance to look into Helix, too.

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago

That's why Go is actually perfect. Tooling works great and compile times are super fast. Language is super simple.

winrid 3y ago
Go indeed makes it hard to justify languages like Nim. I'm kinda scared I'll like Go so much and then my Java knowledge will quickly decay x)

adamrezich 3y ago

on the other hand, the "Jai" beta is quite good in this regard.

cyber_kinetist 3y ago

I think this is not just a problem with ecosystems, but a consequence of the language design itself. Zig and Nim have extensive meta programming language facilities that making good autocompletion support is a very hard problem, while Java doesn't have such a complicated language design. (The problem with Java though is that it's instead hard to use without an IDE since there's too much boilerplate because of its spartan design).