3 ms·
When doing back of the envelope calculations like this, it is helpful to look at the raw materials cost that goes into the capex figures. For example, in trans
by londons_explore 3y ago
When doing back of the envelope calculations like this, it is helpful to look at the raw materials cost that goes into the capex figures.
For example, in transformers there is a lot of steel and copper. You likely won't reduce their costs much unless you figure out how to build them with less steel and copper.
But in electrical inverters, there is only a little steel and copper, and the rest of the cost is in fairly specialized silicon, software, and high design costs. There big cost reductions are probably possible at scale - perhaps to just 1% of today's inverter costs.
Now remember that whatever you're building needs to compete not with today's system, but in a hypothetical future with those optimized inverters.
- pfdietz 3y agoSome transformers use aluminum instead of copper.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoSome use GPUs, math, and attention.
- niloc132 3y agoI believe we were explicitly told that attention is all you need.
- ben_w 3y agoTranscription error, it should have been all ewe need.
- BobaFloutist 3y agoAnd some use living metal and energon.
- londons_explore 3y agoThat isn't as big a win as you imagine, since while the copper is more expensive, the aluminium is less compact (needs to be thicker to get the same resistance), which in turn means the wires need to be longer for the same number of coils, which means they need to be even thicker to keep the same resistance. That in turn makes the coils much bigger, which also means the steel core needs to be bigger to accommodate the coils, and thicker to keep the magnetic resistance (reluctance) low. Making it thicker again makes it longer means it needs to be even thicker. Basically, one property being a bit worse (electrical resistance of the coil material), makes everything else much worse.
- marcosdumay 3y agoYour 60Hz inverters will use about as much copper (or aluminum) and steel as a 60Hz transformer, or a 60Hz generator. How much of it you need is mostly determined by the frequency, voltage, and current it will handle. What is another advantage for the people in the article, because they still need DC/DC converters, but they have complete liberty to pick its frequency.
- londons_explore 3y agoI don't think any solar projects use 60Hz inverters. ~10kHz seems to be the industry standard, although I believe some micro inverters go right up to 1Mhz (saves on capacitors, copper, and steel, but you have to buy much more expensive silicon)
- marcosdumay 3y agoIf you put the energy into the grid, you do it with 50Hz or 60Hz.
- zbrozek 3y agoInverters do not operate transformers at 60 Hz. Many of them don't have even have isolation transformers at all. Their magnetic components are comparatively tiny. Those that do have isolation transformers will run them at high frequencies to keep the core size down.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoAccording to the article, they are feeding the DC current straight from the solar panels to the electrolyzers. They don't need transformers.