6 ms·

I also wonder about a point raised by russian propagandists (which imho is valid): the ukrainian things are relatively low and don't have that mast (see here: h

by fock 3y ago

I also wonder about a point raised by russian propagandists (which imho is valid): the ukrainian things are relatively low and don't have that mast (see here: https://www.twz.com/ukrainian-drone-boat-appears-to-have-been-captured-by-russia https://www.twz.com/ukrainian-drone-boat-appears-to-have-bee...). So how do they find their (relatively small as of late) targets in a 20x100km² area 600km off their deployment point without a) sending those on an industrial scale (unlikely given the western supply chain...), b) these things loitering for days (unlikely given the size?), c) having some very advanced sonar things (which also would need some more depth if I look at publically deployed solutions), d) Russian captains are really incompetent (likely) or e) they are actually guided by the plentiful western surveillance assets. Which would be just like the Houthi missiles which are a) fired in volleys and b) probably depend on data by the iranian/chinese ships lurking around ... The last 2 points make this thing really very good in this specific war (surveillance assets can do whatever they want and russian captains seemed very complacent), but very inefficient anytime else. Also I'd say you should be able to easily adapt something like the various CIWSs (which currently have ancient designs...) to this threat. Also: once you notice the threat (which 2/3 last incident did?), why not level the playing field for your (hopefully not all drunken...) sailors and just flare up the whole environment (which should have helped here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwXzaBixvL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwXzaBixvL8 - also I don't really agree with this guy, that more ships help in defending against a swarming attack when they don't know how to kill the swarm...)

flir 3y ago
It's (e). They're getting intelligence from NATO countries. I thought that was publically acknowledged? Could be wrong.
- _dain_ 3y ago
  Yeah it's not a secret that this is happening. UK/France/Germany are helping with targeting.
- zarzavat 3y ago
  What confuses me is, how is this even a talking point? Under what theory is EU supposed to sit back and watch a bordering country get invaded and not pass that country intelligence? Are we supposed to believe that if the EU invaded Belarus, that Russia wouldn’t pass any intelligence to the Belarusian government?
  - paganel 3y ago
    Because, firstly, EU is not a country, I'm a EU citizen and I certainly do not approve of this policy but there's no way for me (or for other people who think the same as me) to vote out the people that make those decisions (I'm also not a French citizen, maybe that way I could have had an effect on Macron holding power or not). It's a double-edged sword for the EU leaders in the middle to long-term, because once a great part of the European population will start realising that they have been in effect disenfranchised then said population will have no qualms in following new political leaders that will leave "democracy" at the side, and thus leaving the concept of the EU for dead.
    - dainiusse 3y ago
      If you're an Eu citizen - you should care that russia is stopped in Ukraine as they said multiple times - their goal is up to Lisbon.
      - paganel 3y ago
        > their goal is up to Lisbon That was in fact Mitterand's goal in late 1989 - early 1990, the other way round, that is, until the Americans (well, the honorable James Baker) freaked out and nothing came out of it. I still think from time to time what could have been if "from Lisbon to Vladivostok" had become real, just as Mitterand had wanted it. [1] [1] https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/155777507.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/155777507.pdf
        hef19898 3y ago
        Last time I checked, Lisbon was in fact in the EU... Vladivosstok not so much.
- fock 3y ago
  Well, in some countries the chancellor acknowledging that is publicly ostracised for "disturbing the opinion". Which is very fun, because apparently that's not something people want to have put into the remaining mainstream media. All that in countries which a) claim not to be at war (and crucially not doing an inch of the economic adjustments), b) are the good democracies and c) are trying to play this down to things like "satellite" and internet comms. Noone is putting this out: https://en.defence-ua.com/events/what_awacs_see_as_they_transmit_target_data_to_the_armed_forces_of_ukraine_unique_video_on_board_of_the_e_3_sentry_on_patrol-4630.html https://en.defence-ua.com/events/what_awacs_see_as_they_tran... . If you would go into a debate and say: "hey, we are fighting this war already and without our direct involvement Ukraine would be gone from the map" - I guess that would be called fakenews.
danielvf 3y ago
Every Russian naval ship sunk by Ukraine in 2024 has been sunk in sight of land, at a small port or bay that they have been stationed at. It's not that Ukrainian USV are making pinpoint attacks in a vast ocean, rather they are driving over to a port that a ship has been hanging around for months. - Ivanovets, sunk in "Lake Donuzlav", where it had been for months - Tsezar Kunikov, sunk in sight of Alupka, and located right where drones would pass on their way around Crimea. - Sergey Kotov, sunk in the tiny confined space of the port next to a bridge it was guarding.

by fock 3y ago

flir 3y ago

It's (e). They're getting intelligence from NATO countries. I thought that was publically acknowledged? Could be wrong.

_dain_ 3y ago
Yeah it's not a secret that this is happening. UK/France/Germany are helping with targeting.
zarzavat 3y ago
What confuses me is, how is this even a talking point? Under what theory is EU supposed to sit back and watch a bordering country get invaded and not pass that country intelligence? Are we supposed to believe that if the EU invaded Belarus, that Russia wouldn’t pass any intelligence to the Belarusian government?
- paganel 3y ago
  Because, firstly, EU is not a country, I'm a EU citizen and I certainly do not approve of this policy but there's no way for me (or for other people who think the same as me) to vote out the people that make those decisions (I'm also not a French citizen, maybe that way I could have had an effect on Macron holding power or not). It's a double-edged sword for the EU leaders in the middle to long-term, because once a great part of the European population will start realising that they have been in effect disenfranchised then said population will have no qualms in following new political leaders that will leave "democracy" at the side, and thus leaving the concept of the EU for dead.
  - dainiusse 3y ago
    If you're an Eu citizen - you should care that russia is stopped in Ukraine as they said multiple times - their goal is up to Lisbon.
    - paganel 3y ago
      > their goal is up to Lisbon That was in fact Mitterand's goal in late 1989 - early 1990, the other way round, that is, until the Americans (well, the honorable James Baker) freaked out and nothing came out of it. I still think from time to time what could have been if "from Lisbon to Vladivostok" had become real, just as Mitterand had wanted it. [1] [1] https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/155777507.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/155777507.pdf
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Last time I checked, Lisbon was in fact in the EU... Vladivosstok not so much.
fock 3y ago
Well, in some countries the chancellor acknowledging that is publicly ostracised for "disturbing the opinion". Which is very fun, because apparently that's not something people want to have put into the remaining mainstream media. All that in countries which a) claim not to be at war (and crucially not doing an inch of the economic adjustments), b) are the good democracies and c) are trying to play this down to things like "satellite" and internet comms. Noone is putting this out: https://en.defence-ua.com/events/what_awacs_see_as_they_transmit_target_data_to_the_armed_forces_of_ukraine_unique_video_on_board_of_the_e_3_sentry_on_patrol-4630.html https://en.defence-ua.com/events/what_awacs_see_as_they_tran... . If you would go into a debate and say: "hey, we are fighting this war already and without our direct involvement Ukraine would be gone from the map" - I guess that would be called fakenews.

danielvf 3y ago

Every Russian naval ship sunk by Ukraine in 2024 has been sunk in sight of land, at a small port or bay that they have been stationed at. It's not that Ukrainian USV are making pinpoint attacks in a vast ocean, rather they are driving over to a port that a ship has been hanging around for months. - Ivanovets, sunk in "Lake Donuzlav", where it had been for months - Tsezar Kunikov, sunk in sight of Alupka, and located right where drones would pass on their way around Crimea. - Sergey Kotov, sunk in the tiny confined space of the port next to a bridge it was guarding.