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My aunt’s deathbed regret at 61 from cancer - “I wish I had kids.” If you aren’t mentally deranged or have a genetic disease you may pass on, it really is a mi

My aunt’s deathbed regret at 61 from cancer - “I wish I had kids.” If you aren’t mentally deranged or have a genetic disease you may pass on, it really is a mistake to skip having kids. Everyone I know with kids in their 40s and 50s is content. Everyone without are getting ever more extreme hobbies, like creating huge professional-esque home breweries or starting to BASE jump.

georgebcrawford 3y ago
> If you aren’t mentally deranged or have a genetic disease you may pass on, it really is a mistake to skip having kids. Jog on mate. There's a difference between "you won't regret them" and "it really is a mistake to skip having kids." I know loads of older people without kids. Would their lives have had more meaning and fulfillment if they had them? Maybe, probably. But they are happy and content, living lives of meaning. As for your hobbies comment...seriously?
yawpitch 3y ago
Not everyone who “skips” having kids is doing so because of mental derangement (not usually genetic), a genetic disease (be careful with eugenics, it tends to bite), or any kind of mistake. Most people I know in their 40s and 50s who don’t have kids desperately wanted them but for one reason or another couldn’t have them, while most of those who actually chose not to had good, well-reasoned motivations and made the correct choice for them. Spend enough years struggling to find a decent partner and then IFF you eventually do even more years struggling through the inhumane process that is IVF and you’ll also have your aunt’s regret, but not have made any mistakes along the way.
- in_a_society 3y ago
  I suspect that parent comment is not referring to the same kinds of people you are. I can relate because I know several people who flippantly dismissed family formation as not for them and now that it's too late they admit it consumes them like a fire on a daily basis.
  - charlie0 3y ago
    I wonder if they'd be open to adopting.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > Spend enough years struggling to find a decent partner Even worse, what do people do who aren't decent partners themselves? I always wondered how people can think that children are for everyone, but also think that it is hard to find a partner that can help you with the kids. If there are so many people out there who would be horrible parents then maybe those people are better off not being parents, why try to convince them to be one?
  - yawpitch 3y ago
    I tried to address those people — as well as those who’d be perfectly fine (even single) parents but simply couldn’t afford to — in the first paragraph: > while most of those who actually chose not to had good, well-reasoned motivations and made the correct choice for them.
d6e 3y ago
Those hobbies sound pretty cool
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
CalRobert 3y ago
It's hard to get counter examples because there is a strong taboo against admitting you regret having kids, _especially_ for moms. I promise you many parents regret it.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  Yep. Also moms, including mine and my grandma openly say they wouldn’t do it at if there was a do over. They all love their kids but they regret having so little time for themselves in the healthiest part of their lives.
- otherme123 3y ago
  If you talk with them in a non judgemental way, they usually cave in and confess that sometimes they wish a childless life. Of course, the moment you get judgemental, call them bad mothers, or try to "explain" how and why they are wrong, you will never get again these kind of confessions. I think "regret having kids" is too strong here. But having doubts about it, or sometimes whishing/missing their pre-child life is very common. For men is even worse, because they usually get the "luxury" of being almost childless having children. They put the childcare on the mother, and focus on the job, so having kids for them is like having an expensive hobby.
  - rokkitmensch 3y ago
    Those are truly the best dads /s
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Well, for some men, but this has definitely changed over time.
bowsamic 3y ago
There are many convincing arguments for kids but deathbed regrets are not one of them. First, who cares about what I will regret at the end? It’s the end. Second, I don’t trust the perspectives of people in the extreme situation of “just about to die”. They invariably have romanticised views about life, because they’re about to lose it. They’re not at all thinking of the huge stresses of children
- esafak 3y ago
  Regret does not set in just as you are about to die.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    How do you know that? It only speaks of the deathbed. Regardless having children simply to assuage future regret seems very strange to me
    - esafak 3y ago
      Because I know such people, and it is inconceivable that one would notice one's childless status only before dying. Why does it seem strange to act so as to minimize future regret? That's just common sense. This principle guided Jeff Bezos, for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ
      - bowsamic 3y ago
        Because it’s a selfish reason and also it’s entirely based on speculation. Who knows what I’ll regret?
        em-bee 3y ago
        the best way to minimize future regret is to make deliberate life decisions. look at all the factors, consider options and consequences. for example i wish i had gotten married and have children earlier. however, looking back, i see no way i could have achieved this. there is no choice i made that i could have changed, given what i knew then, and even given what i know now. sure there were opportunities that i missed. like this one girl that showed interest in me, that i didn't pursue. would my life have been different if i had chosen her? absolutely. would it have been better? i have no idea. so how can i regret a decision, where i can't even assess the outcome if i had made a different choice? the only thing to really regret are dumb decisions. the ones where you already know ahead of time that they would be dumb. like drunk driving, or stuff like that. but most regrets, if you think them through, should turn out to be things that you probably could not have made better anyways.
card_zero 3y ago
Kids are a hobby, given disproportionate importance by the mind-controlling evolved urges the article mentions. OK, I admit I'm being deliberately offensive here in a tit-for-tat manner, you may have a point. I'll note though that feeling content, or happy, has never made much sense to me as a goal, since it's vacuous: the argument "you should do this because it will make you feel good" doesn't really address the "should" part, the moral dimension. Many bad things will make you feel good, potentially for the rest of your life (this works out quicker if the thing kills you), and moral purpose seems to be sometimes clouded and twisted into disingenuous statements by for instance drug addiction, where the person is just trying to justify the compelling call of dopamine, or by parenthood.
otherme123 3y ago
So now we are all the same, I guess. If your aunt regreted it, everyone would regret it. If you are in your 20's or 30's in doubt of having kids or not, and always finding a reason to not have them, you will probably regret skipoing. But if you, like me, know for a fact that you don't want kids and you never felt any kind of desire to have them, you will probably not regret it. I'm the only one in my job over 40 that doesn't have kids. And both the quote from the article "By the same token, why does nobody ever say that having kids was a mistake?" or yours "Everyone I know with kids in their 40s and 50s is content." are false. If you poke hard enough, moms fall apart and recognize that sometimes they find themselves wishing to get rid of their kids and fantasizing about a childless life. But they don't like to talk about it because that would make them bad mothers. I reassure them that it's a normal feeling if you are going through hard times with them. But they are not specially happy with having kids (and I'm sure there are precious times with them), nor I'm sad or regretful for not having them.
- phmqk76 3y ago
  A certain small percentage of any population is comprised of outliers. It’s kind of the definition of outlier…
anonzzzies 3y ago
Your local group of ‘friends’ apparently; I have different experiences. And my friends with kids (who are 50+ now) mostly regret it for the time lost. Anecdotal is anecdotal.
- laborcontract 3y ago
  As deathbed regrets go, 'working more' and ‘having kids’ aren’t two I hear a lot of.
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    I haven’t heard any deathbed regrets while having seen quite a lot of people die with their mental faculties intact (all cancer). I am wasn’t talking deathbed regrets, more like ‘what would you do different’. Then I have heard both of these things you mention, including from myself.
  - inyourtenement 3y ago
    Consider how much less you have to work if you don't have kids.
anonzzzies 3y ago
> If you aren’t mentally deranged And this sentence says more about your (probably religious) background than about people who choose to not have kids.
system16 3y ago
And if it’s not kids it’ll be something else. My mom passed away a few years ago and she commented how she regretted spending so much time doing “outdoorsy” stuff with my stepdad, and wish she’d had spent more time shopping. When you know it’s the end and your options are gone, you’ll always lament what could have been.
chowells 3y ago
You username suggests you find value only in monetary gain, so it's no shock your other ideas are equally bad.

georgebcrawford 3y ago

> If you aren’t mentally deranged or have a genetic disease you may pass on, it really is a mistake to skip having kids. Jog on mate. There's a difference between "you won't regret them" and "it really is a mistake to skip having kids." I know loads of older people without kids. Would their lives have had more meaning and fulfillment if they had them? Maybe, probably. But they are happy and content, living lives of meaning. As for your hobbies comment...seriously?

yawpitch 3y ago

Not everyone who “skips” having kids is doing so because of mental derangement (not usually genetic), a genetic disease (be careful with eugenics, it tends to bite), or any kind of mistake. Most people I know in their 40s and 50s who don’t have kids desperately wanted them but for one reason or another couldn’t have them, while most of those who actually chose not to had good, well-reasoned motivations and made the correct choice for them. Spend enough years struggling to find a decent partner and then IFF you eventually do even more years struggling through the inhumane process that is IVF and you’ll also have your aunt’s regret, but not have made any mistakes along the way.

in_a_society 3y ago
I suspect that parent comment is not referring to the same kinds of people you are. I can relate because I know several people who flippantly dismissed family formation as not for them and now that it's too late they admit it consumes them like a fire on a daily basis.
- charlie0 3y ago
  I wonder if they'd be open to adopting.
Jensson 3y ago
> Spend enough years struggling to find a decent partner Even worse, what do people do who aren't decent partners themselves? I always wondered how people can think that children are for everyone, but also think that it is hard to find a partner that can help you with the kids. If there are so many people out there who would be horrible parents then maybe those people are better off not being parents, why try to convince them to be one?
- yawpitch 3y ago
  I tried to address those people — as well as those who’d be perfectly fine (even single) parents but simply couldn’t afford to — in the first paragraph: > while most of those who actually chose not to had good, well-reasoned motivations and made the correct choice for them.

d6e 3y ago

Those hobbies sound pretty cool

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

CalRobert 3y ago

It's hard to get counter examples because there is a strong taboo against admitting you regret having kids, _especially_ for moms. I promise you many parents regret it.

anonzzzies 3y ago
Yep. Also moms, including mine and my grandma openly say they wouldn’t do it at if there was a do over. They all love their kids but they regret having so little time for themselves in the healthiest part of their lives.
otherme123 3y ago
If you talk with them in a non judgemental way, they usually cave in and confess that sometimes they wish a childless life. Of course, the moment you get judgemental, call them bad mothers, or try to "explain" how and why they are wrong, you will never get again these kind of confessions. I think "regret having kids" is too strong here. But having doubts about it, or sometimes whishing/missing their pre-child life is very common. For men is even worse, because they usually get the "luxury" of being almost childless having children. They put the childcare on the mother, and focus on the job, so having kids for them is like having an expensive hobby.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  Those are truly the best dads /s
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Well, for some men, but this has definitely changed over time.

bowsamic 3y ago

There are many convincing arguments for kids but deathbed regrets are not one of them. First, who cares about what I will regret at the end? It’s the end. Second, I don’t trust the perspectives of people in the extreme situation of “just about to die”. They invariably have romanticised views about life, because they’re about to lose it. They’re not at all thinking of the huge stresses of children

esafak 3y ago
Regret does not set in just as you are about to die.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  How do you know that? It only speaks of the deathbed. Regardless having children simply to assuage future regret seems very strange to me
  - esafak 3y ago
    Because I know such people, and it is inconceivable that one would notice one's childless status only before dying. Why does it seem strange to act so as to minimize future regret? That's just common sense. This principle guided Jeff Bezos, for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ
    - bowsamic 3y ago
      Because it’s a selfish reason and also it’s entirely based on speculation. Who knows what I’ll regret?
      - em-bee 3y ago
        the best way to minimize future regret is to make deliberate life decisions. look at all the factors, consider options and consequences. for example i wish i had gotten married and have children earlier. however, looking back, i see no way i could have achieved this. there is no choice i made that i could have changed, given what i knew then, and even given what i know now. sure there were opportunities that i missed. like this one girl that showed interest in me, that i didn't pursue. would my life have been different if i had chosen her? absolutely. would it have been better? i have no idea. so how can i regret a decision, where i can't even assess the outcome if i had made a different choice? the only thing to really regret are dumb decisions. the ones where you already know ahead of time that they would be dumb. like drunk driving, or stuff like that. but most regrets, if you think them through, should turn out to be things that you probably could not have made better anyways.

card_zero 3y ago

Kids are a hobby, given disproportionate importance by the mind-controlling evolved urges the article mentions. OK, I admit I'm being deliberately offensive here in a tit-for-tat manner, you may have a point. I'll note though that feeling content, or happy, has never made much sense to me as a goal, since it's vacuous: the argument "you should do this because it will make you feel good" doesn't really address the "should" part, the moral dimension. Many bad things will make you feel good, potentially for the rest of your life (this works out quicker if the thing kills you), and moral purpose seems to be sometimes clouded and twisted into disingenuous statements by for instance drug addiction, where the person is just trying to justify the compelling call of dopamine, or by parenthood.

otherme123 3y ago

So now we are all the same, I guess. If your aunt regreted it, everyone would regret it. If you are in your 20's or 30's in doubt of having kids or not, and always finding a reason to not have them, you will probably regret skipoing. But if you, like me, know for a fact that you don't want kids and you never felt any kind of desire to have them, you will probably not regret it. I'm the only one in my job over 40 that doesn't have kids. And both the quote from the article "By the same token, why does nobody ever say that having kids was a mistake?" or yours "Everyone I know with kids in their 40s and 50s is content." are false. If you poke hard enough, moms fall apart and recognize that sometimes they find themselves wishing to get rid of their kids and fantasizing about a childless life. But they don't like to talk about it because that would make them bad mothers. I reassure them that it's a normal feeling if you are going through hard times with them. But they are not specially happy with having kids (and I'm sure there are precious times with them), nor I'm sad or regretful for not having them.

phmqk76 3y ago
A certain small percentage of any population is comprised of outliers. It’s kind of the definition of outlier…

anonzzzies 3y ago

Your local group of ‘friends’ apparently; I have different experiences. And my friends with kids (who are 50+ now) mostly regret it for the time lost. Anecdotal is anecdotal.

laborcontract 3y ago
As deathbed regrets go, 'working more' and ‘having kids’ aren’t two I hear a lot of.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  I haven’t heard any deathbed regrets while having seen quite a lot of people die with their mental faculties intact (all cancer). I am wasn’t talking deathbed regrets, more like ‘what would you do different’. Then I have heard both of these things you mention, including from myself.
- inyourtenement 3y ago
  Consider how much less you have to work if you don't have kids.

anonzzzies 3y ago

> If you aren’t mentally deranged And this sentence says more about your (probably religious) background than about people who choose to not have kids.

system16 3y ago

And if it’s not kids it’ll be something else. My mom passed away a few years ago and she commented how she regretted spending so much time doing “outdoorsy” stuff with my stepdad, and wish she’d had spent more time shopping. When you know it’s the end and your options are gone, you’ll always lament what could have been.

chowells 3y ago

You username suggests you find value only in monetary gain, so it's no shock your other ideas are equally bad.