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Apple will cut off 3rd-party appstore updates if iPhone is not in EU for a month
- tjpnz 3y agoKeep fining them until they get it.
- Karupan 3y agoApple will really bend over backwards to screw their customers, even if they are legally bound to. What is the point in making it this complicated? Hope we find a way around this technical limitation, although knowing Apple it isn’t going to be easy.
- jsheard 3y agoThe good news is that once the EU does the heavy lifting of beating Apple into submission, it's relatively easy for other regions to say "enable EU mode for us as well, thanks".
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y agoFor better or worse, lawmakers are allergic to copying another jurisdiction’s regulations. What we are inevitably going to end up with, if anything, is a mishmash of superficially differing rules between jurisdictions. Apple will either use their infinite resources to maliciously comply with all of them to the minimum degree required, creating an increasingly shittified, fragmented experience. Or, cooler heads will prevail, Apple will admit to themselves that the party is over, and they’ll start complying with the spirit of the law.
- OsrsNeedsf2P 3y ago> is the point in making it this complicated? What do they lose by fighting it tooth and nail? They don't want consumers using 3rd party app stores. Apple users have been plenty happy without them for years, too.
- CharlieDigital 3y agoSeems like a non-issue then and Apple should open up their platform if they are so sure of their superior app store.
- kweingar 3y ago> Apple users have been plenty happy without them for years, too. As an iPhone owner I have been annoyed at the walled garden for years.
- warkdarrior 3y agoBut clearly not annoyed enough to move off their platform. Apple is counting on your continued support.
- jncfhnb 3y agoThe point is that it’s half their bottom line
- walterbell 3y agoMostly from a handful of apps, why limit everyone else?
- jncfhnb 3y agoBecause there’s dozens of billions of dollars on the line and they don’t give a fuck about anything else
- walterbell 3y agoWhy not make rules for the apps which generate "billions of dollars"? Constrain those apps via special APIs subject to Apple policy. Why stop at 30% extortion, go for more. Leave the rest of apps alone, until a new billion dollar category appears, then it can get the same mafia treatment. This is Platform Sherlocking 101. Let new crops grow before demanding a cut. Don't scare everyone from farming.
- jncfhnb 3y agoI’m unclear if you’re genuinely asking why, or playing out rhetoric for show.
- walterbell 3y agoI'm asking why not have application-specific fees and policy, instead of both Apple and regulators dancing around the revenue issue, while using the rhetoric of generic business actors and app-neutral policy. There's a reason that only gaming companies have taken Apple to court. Why should the economics of low-volume and low-profit medical or security applications be subject to the business mechanics of addictive games, which generate billions of revenue for Apple and gaming app developers?
- walterbell 3y agoOne medical/security app event away from reversal. Policy Speedrun 2024.
- bluetidepro 3y agoSlightly off topic: Haven’t tried it, but does a simple VPN for the EU allow you to access all these great EU features like 3rd party appstores?
- jsheard 3y agoApple says you must be physically located in an EU country to be eligible, as determined by your device, so presumably they are checking GPS and/or cellular location data rather than just IP geolocation.
- walterbell 3y agoEven if on-device location is disabled?
- jsheard 3y agoIn that case they'll probably either (a) ignore your setting and check anyway because the OS can do whatever it wants, or (b) default to "not EU" mode until you agree to turn location services on. They're not going to give you an easy workaround, Apple has made it clear they're going to do the bare minimum they can get away with.
- walterbell 3y agoIn that scenario, future policy authors would thank Apple for free legislative fuzzing.
- pests 3y agoThis is how the online casinos do it in my state. They require location access on mobile or a dedicated download for desktop. I recently spent a bit of time trying to bypass the location check (out of curiosity) and they have it pretty locked down. The key is they require WiFi to be on so they can get around GPS spoofing. I had even attempted re-creating all the SSIDs and other networks nearby my spoofed location but the existing networks near my real location were reducing the confidence and still getting me flagged. One thing I learned during this was how complicit browser manufactures are in providing this information. There is no way to enable location services but disable WiFi triangulation in any mainstream browser. If you disable location permissions websites can just outright block you. End solution was just a remote KVM setup but not exactly what I wanted.
- rorylawless 3y agoThis feels like a malicious version of the fair usage exceptions to the EU's mobile phone roaming regulations. I hope the EU tightens up the rules to prevent this as these does not seem to be any justification for this, crossing a border doesn't suddenly add additional cost to Apple.
- behnamoh 3y agoAs a non_EU citizen, I hope other countries follow suite and pass similar laws. So far the EU has single-handedly faced Apple's unethical actions, and while I have several Apple devices, I hope more pressure is put on the company to save it from itself.
- daft_pink 3y agoI think this third party appstore is an existential threat to apple in the sense that no one jailbreaks there iphone, because they need legit apps, but if the EU allows third party apps stores, then Americans could start jailbreaking their phones and just using third party app stores.
- drooopy 3y agoSo basically you should avoid using an iphone if you rely on a specific application from a 3rd party app store because apple will cripple it on purpose depending on how you choose to live your life.
- endisneigh 3y agoPretty much. Android the way to go there.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoThis has a super simple solution that would break even Apple. Change the law so that any device sold must comply with the DMA for all EU citizens, regardless of domicile. Thus, any company that denies a EU citizen under the DMA, even if they live in the US, shall be considered noncomplaint. Also, to make sure no tricks are used, make sure to specify that it is illegal to require citizenship verification for DMA rights.
- drexlspivey 3y agoYes I always dreamed of uploading my passport and proof of residence to use a phone..
- jncfhnb 3y agoThere’s an even simpler solution. Continue to fine them until they stop playing games.
- syrrim 3y agoOr require it of all devices sold in the EU, regardless of where those devices are later brought. This would be entirely defensible - "we're just regulating products sold within our market" - but inevitably they would make their way outside the EU to be resold.
- xyst 3y agoI’m honestly done with Apple. I’m American but from the horribly locked down devices, anti-repair mechanisms built into devices (ie, software locked feature after non-Apple repair), apple pushing right to repair propaganda through lobbyist groups and “McKinsey” type consultants, and just general abuse from the company towards app developers (ie, high fees charged, “rules for thee, but not for me” such as with Network APIs applied to 3rd party sw but apps like App Store bypass this, stealing of ideas). Great looking products. But behind those products is a predator looking to extract as much money/time from you.
- kbf 3y agoThis is very interesting because there’s really no reason for this limitation to exist with regards to EU users. The only reason I can see for this is that Apple knows their rules are so unpopular that users from the rest of the world might go as far as travel abroad or start trafficking devices to get around them.
- mikeocool 3y ago> Apple knows their rules are so unpopular Are they? I know developers don’t like the rules, but I don’t know a lot of iPhone owners who feel particularly stifled by them. If they did, presumably they’d just buy an Android phone?
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y agoAt first the Apps store rules provided an advantage to the Apple ecosystem though. And there are still some advantages that keep people in the ecosystem for now. But Apple needs to evolve their offering. The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
- walterbell 3y ago> I don’t know a lot of iPhone owners who feel particularly stifled The existence of iOS Unix shell emulators (iSH, aShell) suggests otherwise, at least on iPads. Perhaps that will change with forthcoming iPad Pro + macOS-subset VMs.
- staplers 3y agoI don’t know a lot of iPhone owners who feel particularly stifled by them Thank you for your deeply anecdotal brush off. Surely it makes those millions nearly imprisoned (try living without a phone) in the modern world by the corporate duopoly feel at ease. Just switch to the other side and solve all the problems.
- ipaddr 3y agoThe other side gives you the possibility of getting a phone with different variations and people also root their phone and sideload apps. I support going the PinePhone route but not sure that's right for the average person.
- mastazi 3y agoAs someone who used to be in the field of public relations before starting a career in software - I don't understand why they are doing this. Surely they realise that this stuff is going to end up on mainstream media and damage their image? EDIT: I get what people are saying about the App Store fees but reputational damage does cost money, possibly quite a lot.
- wlesieutre 3y agoWho needs reputation when you can have a 30% cut of every microtransaction game instead?
- jncfhnb 3y agoIt can’t possibly hurt more than what they gain from racketeering
- r00fus 3y agoThis is to prevent the EU DMA rules (and 3rd party EU app stores) from infecting their other markets. The idea being, I could travel to the EU (or just buy an EU iPhone), install a 3rd party App Store + apps, then happily use a non-Appstore iPhone outside the EU. I don't particularly think this "infection" a big risk, but Apple sure seems to.
- friend_and_foe 3y agoApple has been known to abuse their users like this for over a decade. Still somehow they're huge, they have a loyal fanbase of people that make excuses for it to justify their conspicuous consumption. They know it, so they do what they want.
- smnrchrds 3y ago> I don't understand why they are doing this Billions and billions of dollars, that's why.
- safety1st 3y agoI think you have the right take, because right now exactly zero people are smuggling iPhones out of the EU to use 3rd party app stores. These non-existent smugglings are costing Apple $0 So this is just a PR fiasco and a way for Apple to look like a comic book villain that spites both customers and governments, at no gain to itself. If this thing Apple execs apparently fear more than the Devil himself were to actually happen then OK do the calculus and ban what you think you need to ban. But doing it now is just silly. Apple used to be a company that was famously good at managing its image, no more it seems. A slow decline into incompetency accompanied by a relentless focus on profit maximization is a classic sign that a company has obtained illegal monopoly rents in one form or another and needs to be brought to justice
- endisneigh 3y agoThough I’m happy to see the 3rd party apps - I really don’t get why people even buy apple devices if they want to side load or do other such things. In terms of camera quality, battery life, or any single criterion it’s not like apple devices are the best anyway. As a side note - I really don’t understand the logic that leaves gaming consoles exempt. As a second side note - how is apple even determining if you are an EU citizen or in an EU country? Presumably GPS, but is the implication that EU users must phone home to apple every 30 days?
- behnamoh 3y ago> I really don’t get why people even buy apple devices if they want to side load or do other such things. That's Apple's argument, but it's bs. It's like Microsoft selling you Windows with ads all over the place and then when you complain they say: "I don't understand why you buy Windows if you don't want to see ads, there are other options w/o ads."
- endisneigh 3y agoWhat’s BS about it? Genuinely curious? Why buy iPhones? They’re not superior.
- zipping1549 3y agoA lot of people can't use anything other than Windows because of compatibility issue with their work software...etc. I don't think anyone's forced to use iPhone.
- bmicraft 3y agoAnd they can buy the pro business ultra enterprise edition version of windows without them. Even that isn't an option with Apple.
- Aloisius 3y ago> how is apple even determining if you are an EU citizen or in an EU country Both cell towers and wifi base stations advertise the country code they're in. Every phone needs to know what jurisdiction it is in order to do things like route emergency services calls or what radio frequency bands to enable.
- PostOnce 3y agoI wonder if the tracking of location of European users will also be declared illegal under privacy laws, making it illegal for Apple to determine whether or not a European user is in Europe.
- bmicraft 3y agoI sure hope it would be.
- bigpaw 3y agoWow, nice, tracking people now. Oh, wait... ;) Apple beeing evil. I hope they get fined by the EU.
- jncfhnb 3y agoIsn’t Apple tracking your location like this a gdpr violation even if they don’t store the results?
- kbf 3y agoI don’t know how it works, but I don’t see why it would need to leave the device.
- jncfhnb 3y ago… how? If I click download the epic game store and it says “No” then it has been told my location Edit: I suppose technically it could be a client level rejection and the App Store says “idk what went wrong”
- kbf 3y agoThere’s a process in iOS called “countryd” that calculates a country code based on sensor data from GPS, cellular and wifi. If the country code matches an EU country, you get DMA features. I assume the thirty days is how long you have to be abroad for the country code to update, but I don’t know that.
- randmeerkat 3y agoDupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39636505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39636505
- whatisyour 3y agoThis most probably violates Cyber Resilience Act by intentionally making their customers vulnerable to prevent security updates.
- jhanschoo 3y agoThe inability to update an app installed from a 3rd party appstore is clearly a threat to the platform integrity of iOS. If Apple believes its own convenient rhetoric [1] it must forcibly uninstall those apps or allow installed apps to continue updating. [1]: as outlined in, e.g. https://developer.apple.com/security/complying-with-the-dma.pdf https://developer.apple.com/security/complying-with-the-dma....
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago[dupe] Some more discussion a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39617531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39617531
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoSo now I need to give up my privacy because I need to let Apple use my GPS / IP address? They say it's their on-device indicator, but that could mean many things. GPS, external IP, cell phone masts... Do I really own the device if I can't control what runs on it?
- gls2ro 3y agoNo you dont have to accept IP address/GPS tracking most probably. your iPhone has a phone component inside and that phone component knows exactly (well depending on the tower you are connected to) what country are you in. PS: yes your cellphone network provider knows pretty accurate when you are entering your country and exiting it.