5 ms·

This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Apple (and Google) need to be saved from themselves sometimes. Meanwhile the rep

This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Apple (and Google) need to be saved from themselves sometimes. Meanwhile the repeated reversals are making Apple look guilty and nefarious.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
toneyG 3y ago
Apple and Google are for-profit corporations. Im sure they would protest that they don't need saving
- throwaway14356 3y ago
  I want an iphone but if they want to end the industry i cant buy one
  - holmesworcester 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - Aldo_MX 3y ago
    Then buy 51% of shares, do a hostile takeover and stop their anti-competitive madness before it is too late. You don't need to do radical changes, just small actions like do not steal the tips students send to teachers. Going full-goblin mode and demanding 30% of all the money that moves through a phone is what is destroying Apple.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      Students are tipping teachers now? Tipping culture really has gone off the rails.
      - mass_and_energy 3y ago
        Can someone please explain how this isn't bribery in disguise? I'd have graduated with honors if my teachers accepted tips
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        willcipriano 3y ago
        If you tip enough they even put your name on one of the buildings.
        idontpost 3y ago
        [dead]
        Brian_K_White 3y ago
        It's not bribery because it's not degree courses. You can go on countless apps and sites and pay to have people teach you stuff.
      - nox101 3y ago
        I don't know what the op is referring to but just a guess. I know one app, HelloTalk where I think you can get paid to teach language. Think of it as zoom + twitch but centered around language learning. You can run a channel (twitch style) and you can take private "zoom" calls for money. Apple is probably taking 30% for those calls.
    - Aldo_MX 3y ago
      To people confused about "students tipping teachers", this is the context: https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/in-a-reversal-apple-is-now-demanding-30-of-the-donations-to-meditation-app-insight-timers-teachers/amp/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/in-a-reversal-apple-is-now...
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  They aren’t a single person. There are no doubt people in those orgs who might wish to do away with all the anticompetitive strongarmsmanship in the spirit of shared technological innovation. But, its not like they have agency to change anything and the shareholders just want a growth stock not actual technological progress, so thats how they end up managed.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    A lot more ideological fights boil down to internal factions pushing things one way or the other than one would think. Smart people can make mischief visible or invisible without necessarily getting caught defecting or cooperating. Oops did I draw that regulator’s attention to the room where we keep the bodies? Silly me.
- blackbear_ 3y ago
  I must be missing something, how does the second sentence logically follow from the first one?
- vrachev 3y ago
  I liken good regulation as a way to prevent markets from getting stuck in a local maxima. That's generally what people mean from "saving them from themselves.
tjoff 3y ago
Yeah we get to choose between google and apple. Lucky us...
- biscuitech 3y ago
  Would you rather have no choice? I get the sentiment, but it's nice to finally have lawmakers and regulators standing for what's right - for once.
  - tshaddox 3y ago
    Aren’t regulators by definition establishing regulations which make all choices more similar to each other?
    - dwattttt 3y ago
      More similar in that they force them to obey the regulations, yes. But regulations cover things like interoperability & anti-competitive behaviour, and here retaliatory actions. I'd very much like _all_ choices to be forced to behave the same w.r.t. not being able to retaliate against protected action, or all be forced to follow the same laws.
    - wredue 3y ago
      Sure. In the same way that all sports are similar in that most have regulations against fighting.
      - tshaddox 3y ago
        But we’re not in a situation where there are very few sports, where many people complain about the lack of choice in sports, and where regulators are attempting to eliminate one of the very few meaningful differences between the existing choices.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      There are plenty of ways to differentiate in a competitive market. Good regulations set baselines for fair play, both toward customers and competitors. Whether or not that makes some aspects of those choices more similar isn't really relevant. Or if it is, it's because it makes them similar in good ways. Ways that are pro-customer and pro-competition, but they won't do unless legally required.
burnerthrow008 3y ago
> This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Except all of us who value privacy and security. Face it: the major competition between app stores is not going to be on price, but a race to the bottom on who can allow apps to fuck over users the hardest.
- freedomben 3y ago
  You really think Apple is just going to abandon everything it believes in and trash their brand in a race to the bottom? If there's one company I don't expect that from, it's Apple. They may have highly dubious ethics but they are damn good at business and marketing, and I would be utterly shocked if they don't position themselves as the safe, privacy-friendly official app store. For people who don't enable side-loading, I wouldn't expect they'll even notice any changes.
  - tpmoney 3y ago
    It's not whether Apple will, it's the other developers that you might not have a choice to interact with. Sure, in the tech space, we're all imagining the great open source on iOS revolution. Gamers are anticipating their Fortnite. And I'm sure Facebook is anticipating not having to ask for permission to hoover up all your personal data. Sure you don't need facebook, but if you want to be using WhatsApp to communicate with your friends and family, you might not have a choice. Shady companies that sell shady spyware to schools "for the children" are looking forward to a much easier time rolling out the most invasive ideas they have. The ad companies are I'm sure salivating over telemetry libraries with extra detailed modes for non-Apple app store installations.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      That would certainly be an interesting turn of events if major apps like Facebook or Whatsapp decided to d-list from the app store and require their own store. Given Apple's current heavy fees and disincentives to do that, I'm guessing epic is probably the only company that will. I think a lot of people would refuse to install an alternative app store to get most apps. But most of all, I look at Android where alternative app stores are possible with essentially no cost, and even with Amazon's enormous resources behind it, they could not get an alternative app store to catch on. I can't think of any reason why it would be different on iOS, so ultimately I suppose I expect this to go nowhere and a few years from now there will be the epic game store and the main app store and everything for nearly everybody will just be on the app store like it is now. The alternative stores will just have the apps that Apple wouldn't approve, like porn apps or privacy invasive, etc
throwaway5959 3y ago
I don’t think the EU should be able to say what Apple or Google can or cannot do in terms of their products. You don’t see the US constantly fining Airbus.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  Why not? They tell US car makers what their products should do. The same for fruit growers, clothes makers and thousands of other businesses selling into the common market. It's called regulation and it's a normal part of modern life. We're a society of laws and they apply equally to everyone. If you don't like the laws either vote accordingly, talk to your representative, organise a political action, or leave for a more agreeable jurisdiction. Also, the US fined Airbus $582 million in 2020.
  - NekkoDroid 3y ago
    I find it funny them bringing up aviation companies when it feels like every month Boeing appears in the news for something falling off their plan while in flight, be it doors or wheels. That is what happens when you let companies "do what ever they want" and mind you aviation is VERY REGULATED.
    - SR2Z 3y ago
      The regulatory regime for Boeing has not changed; Boeing has.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

toneyG 3y ago

Apple and Google are for-profit corporations. Im sure they would protest that they don't need saving

throwaway14356 3y ago
I want an iphone but if they want to end the industry i cant buy one
- holmesworcester 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Aldo_MX 3y ago
  Then buy 51% of shares, do a hostile takeover and stop their anti-competitive madness before it is too late. You don't need to do radical changes, just small actions like do not steal the tips students send to teachers. Going full-goblin mode and demanding 30% of all the money that moves through a phone is what is destroying Apple.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    Students are tipping teachers now? Tipping culture really has gone off the rails.
    - mass_and_energy 3y ago
      Can someone please explain how this isn't bribery in disguise? I'd have graduated with honors if my teachers accepted tips
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        If you tip enough they even put your name on one of the buildings.
      - idontpost 3y ago
        [dead]
      - Brian_K_White 3y ago
        It's not bribery because it's not degree courses. You can go on countless apps and sites and pay to have people teach you stuff.
    - nox101 3y ago
      I don't know what the op is referring to but just a guess. I know one app, HelloTalk where I think you can get paid to teach language. Think of it as zoom + twitch but centered around language learning. You can run a channel (twitch style) and you can take private "zoom" calls for money. Apple is probably taking 30% for those calls.
  - Aldo_MX 3y ago
    To people confused about "students tipping teachers", this is the context: https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/in-a-reversal-apple-is-now-demanding-30-of-the-donations-to-meditation-app-insight-timers-teachers/amp/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/in-a-reversal-apple-is-now...
kjkjadksj 3y ago
They aren’t a single person. There are no doubt people in those orgs who might wish to do away with all the anticompetitive strongarmsmanship in the spirit of shared technological innovation. But, its not like they have agency to change anything and the shareholders just want a growth stock not actual technological progress, so thats how they end up managed.
- hinkley 3y ago
  A lot more ideological fights boil down to internal factions pushing things one way or the other than one would think. Smart people can make mischief visible or invisible without necessarily getting caught defecting or cooperating. Oops did I draw that regulator’s attention to the room where we keep the bodies? Silly me.
blackbear_ 3y ago
I must be missing something, how does the second sentence logically follow from the first one?
vrachev 3y ago
I liken good regulation as a way to prevent markets from getting stuck in a local maxima. That's generally what people mean from "saving them from themselves.

tjoff 3y ago

Yeah we get to choose between google and apple. Lucky us...

biscuitech 3y ago
Would you rather have no choice? I get the sentiment, but it's nice to finally have lawmakers and regulators standing for what's right - for once.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  Aren’t regulators by definition establishing regulations which make all choices more similar to each other?
  - dwattttt 3y ago
    More similar in that they force them to obey the regulations, yes. But regulations cover things like interoperability & anti-competitive behaviour, and here retaliatory actions. I'd very much like _all_ choices to be forced to behave the same w.r.t. not being able to retaliate against protected action, or all be forced to follow the same laws.
  - wredue 3y ago
    Sure. In the same way that all sports are similar in that most have regulations against fighting.
    - tshaddox 3y ago
      But we’re not in a situation where there are very few sports, where many people complain about the lack of choice in sports, and where regulators are attempting to eliminate one of the very few meaningful differences between the existing choices.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    There are plenty of ways to differentiate in a competitive market. Good regulations set baselines for fair play, both toward customers and competitors. Whether or not that makes some aspects of those choices more similar isn't really relevant. Or if it is, it's because it makes them similar in good ways. Ways that are pro-customer and pro-competition, but they won't do unless legally required.

burnerthrow008 3y ago

> This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Except all of us who value privacy and security. Face it: the major competition between app stores is not going to be on price, but a race to the bottom on who can allow apps to fuck over users the hardest.

freedomben 3y ago
You really think Apple is just going to abandon everything it believes in and trash their brand in a race to the bottom? If there's one company I don't expect that from, it's Apple. They may have highly dubious ethics but they are damn good at business and marketing, and I would be utterly shocked if they don't position themselves as the safe, privacy-friendly official app store. For people who don't enable side-loading, I wouldn't expect they'll even notice any changes.
- tpmoney 3y ago
  It's not whether Apple will, it's the other developers that you might not have a choice to interact with. Sure, in the tech space, we're all imagining the great open source on iOS revolution. Gamers are anticipating their Fortnite. And I'm sure Facebook is anticipating not having to ask for permission to hoover up all your personal data. Sure you don't need facebook, but if you want to be using WhatsApp to communicate with your friends and family, you might not have a choice. Shady companies that sell shady spyware to schools "for the children" are looking forward to a much easier time rolling out the most invasive ideas they have. The ad companies are I'm sure salivating over telemetry libraries with extra detailed modes for non-Apple app store installations.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    That would certainly be an interesting turn of events if major apps like Facebook or Whatsapp decided to d-list from the app store and require their own store. Given Apple's current heavy fees and disincentives to do that, I'm guessing epic is probably the only company that will. I think a lot of people would refuse to install an alternative app store to get most apps. But most of all, I look at Android where alternative app stores are possible with essentially no cost, and even with Amazon's enormous resources behind it, they could not get an alternative app store to catch on. I can't think of any reason why it would be different on iOS, so ultimately I suppose I expect this to go nowhere and a few years from now there will be the epic game store and the main app store and everything for nearly everybody will just be on the app store like it is now. The alternative stores will just have the apps that Apple wouldn't approve, like porn apps or privacy invasive, etc

throwaway5959 3y ago

I don’t think the EU should be able to say what Apple or Google can or cannot do in terms of their products. You don’t see the US constantly fining Airbus.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
Why not? They tell US car makers what their products should do. The same for fruit growers, clothes makers and thousands of other businesses selling into the common market. It's called regulation and it's a normal part of modern life. We're a society of laws and they apply equally to everyone. If you don't like the laws either vote accordingly, talk to your representative, organise a political action, or leave for a more agreeable jurisdiction. Also, the US fined Airbus $582 million in 2020.
- NekkoDroid 3y ago
  I find it funny them bringing up aviation companies when it feels like every month Boeing appears in the news for something falling off their plan while in flight, be it doors or wheels. That is what happens when you let companies "do what ever they want" and mind you aviation is VERY REGULATED.
  - SR2Z 3y ago
    The regulatory regime for Boeing has not changed; Boeing has.