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Why would a big tech company be hosting an event with a state committing genocide? That (and working with said regime) is the problem, not people protesting. I

Why would a big tech company be hosting an event with a state committing genocide? That (and working with said regime) is the problem, not people protesting. It's not possible to be a consumer brand and support Israel. The world is too divided and it's not getting any less so.

c0mbonat0r 3y ago
[flagged]
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  I don't agree with you and I'm actively boycotting all companies that work with Israel. This is why consumer brands can't support Israel, I'm not alone.
  - c0mbonat0r 3y ago
    [flagged]
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Both side in that war are behaving badly and nobody should take either side. I look forward to the day when allying with any theocracy is recognized as an ethical mistake.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    There is Hamas, there is the Israeli government and there are the Palestinians, and before, Israelis who did nothing that suffer. I take the side of those loosong their homes, families and lives in Gaza deapite doing nothing at all.
  - goethes_kind 3y ago
    Both sides have resorted to terrorism. In fact that seems to be the modus operandi for both sides. What Israel does every day is also terrorism. The random bombings on civilians, the targeted bombings on key entities (doctors, journalists, authors, peace activists, ....), the detention without judicial recourse of Palestinians, the torture and rape, beating and murder, that happens during those detentions. The stealing of homes in the west bank, the evictions, the harassment of non-Jews (and even some non-Zionist Jewish sects) in Jerusalem and the west bank. The illegal settlement and the constant bullying and taunting of the armed settlers with their rifles and their IDF body guards. The destruction of all Palestinian means of production, whether it be shops or olive orchards. That is all terrorism and that has been happening for decades. But that the end of the day, Israel IS the oppressor and the Palestinians are their victims. That is a very important distinction.
- PheonixPharts 3y ago
  > propaganda news outlets. Most major news outlets are still wildly pro-Israel. My and most people's opinions on the subject tend to not to drive from main stream media accounts, but research and journalistic investigations into the situation there. I don't personally know anyone who has walked down the path of doing real research into the issue and not come out of it horrified with Isreal's actions and this has been long before Oct, 7 2023. Most people who are "fine" with the situation are the ones getting their opinions from the news.
  - c0mbonat0r 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - GordonS 3y ago
    > I don't personally know anyone who has walked down the path of doing real research into the issue and not come out of it horrified with Isreal's actions and this has been long before Oct, 7 2023. I'm slightly ashamed to admit that until Israel's propaganda and genocidal response to the Al Aqsa Flood attack, I believed Israel were basically The Good Guys doing their best against terrorist neighbours. I feel like most people in the UK thought like that, and I rarely saw any negatively portrayals of Israel in the MSM. From what I've learned since, I've been... horrified - and like you said, by their actions going way back.
- izietto 3y ago
  > propaganda news outlets Is ONU considered a propaganda news outlet nowadays? https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-146 https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I would say that the UN uses propaganda but in this case the page you linked to is a fairly factual description of the current situation.
fny 3y ago
[flagged]
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  The ICJ didn't rule on whether or not Israel was committing genocide. It said Israel needed to take the steps to not commit genocide. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-israei-genocide-case-2024-01-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-worl...
  - fny 3y ago
    The case against Israel brought forth by South Africa states quite clearly South Africa asserts Israel is violating the Genocide Convention [0]. The ICJ never corroborated this claim meaning there was not enough evidence to substantiate it. [0]: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192...
  - egberts1 3y ago
    But it remains a court order in which carries the full weight of the ICJ. https://global.upenn.edu/perryworldhouse/news/explaining-international-court-justices-ruling-israel-and-gaza#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20Israel%20must%20conduct%20the,does%20not%20commit%20%5Bgenocide%5D%3B%E2%80%9D https://global.upenn.edu/perryworldhouse/news/explaining-int...
- aaomidi 3y ago
  ICJ was not asked to convict Israel of committing genocide. That was not in the initial ask. The ask was to force Israel to stop its military operation. The ICJ's provisional verdict was _actually pretty bad_ for Israel: "The aforementioned facts and circumstances are sufficient to conclude that at least some rights of the Palestinians to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts in Article 3 of the Genocide Convention, and the rights of South Africa to seek protection of these rights." Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/icj-president-cites-inflammatory-comments-by-gallant-herzog-in-genocide-case-ruling/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/icj-president-c...
7thaccount 3y ago
I think the problem is that folks look at things in a bizarre black and white manner and see it as either 1.) Israel has every right to defend itself from further terrorist attacks and isn't doing anything wrong, or 2.) Israel has no right to retaliate at all. I think the more moderate view is that Israel suffered a heinous terrorist attack perpetrated by a terrorist group in power. Israel has a right to defend their people from such attacks and a military response shouldn't be surprising given the extent of the crimes. However, the people in Gaza (non terrorists) are also human beings who should be treated that way. Not everyone supports the terrorist actions (apparently Hamas is incredibly unpopular amongst the people, but they have little discourse if they don't want to disappear) and the military response from Israel seems to have gotten to a point where children being blown up and starving to death somehow comes with the territory. Surely there is a way to reduce the casualties of innocent bystanders. Surely Israel should provide food and aid to the people after bombing all their infrastructure into the stone age. I admit not being as informed as I should be, but just how many times are we going to have genocide before we learn to stop? Just since the Holocaust we've had genocide in Cambodia, Serbia, Rwanda, China, and now Gaza. In the more distant past it was even more common (e.g. trail of tears).
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
  > we've had genocide in Cambodia, Serbia, [...] Just to correct you, the genocide was in Bosnia, not Serbia, as a culmination of years of ethnic cleansing of the muslim (and to a smaller extent the ethnic Croat) population of Bosnia by the Serbian ethnic group during the period of 1992-1995. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
  - 7thaccount 3y ago
    Thank you! It's been awhile since I went over that.

c0mbonat0r 3y ago

[flagged]

bluefishinit 3y ago
I don't agree with you and I'm actively boycotting all companies that work with Israel. This is why consumer brands can't support Israel, I'm not alone.
- c0mbonat0r 3y ago
  [flagged]
jeffbee 3y ago
Both side in that war are behaving badly and nobody should take either side. I look forward to the day when allying with any theocracy is recognized as an ethical mistake.
- hef19898 3y ago
  There is Hamas, there is the Israeli government and there are the Palestinians, and before, Israelis who did nothing that suffer. I take the side of those loosong their homes, families and lives in Gaza deapite doing nothing at all.
- goethes_kind 3y ago
  Both sides have resorted to terrorism. In fact that seems to be the modus operandi for both sides. What Israel does every day is also terrorism. The random bombings on civilians, the targeted bombings on key entities (doctors, journalists, authors, peace activists, ....), the detention without judicial recourse of Palestinians, the torture and rape, beating and murder, that happens during those detentions. The stealing of homes in the west bank, the evictions, the harassment of non-Jews (and even some non-Zionist Jewish sects) in Jerusalem and the west bank. The illegal settlement and the constant bullying and taunting of the armed settlers with their rifles and their IDF body guards. The destruction of all Palestinian means of production, whether it be shops or olive orchards. That is all terrorism and that has been happening for decades. But that the end of the day, Israel IS the oppressor and the Palestinians are their victims. That is a very important distinction.
PheonixPharts 3y ago
> propaganda news outlets. Most major news outlets are still wildly pro-Israel. My and most people's opinions on the subject tend to not to drive from main stream media accounts, but research and journalistic investigations into the situation there. I don't personally know anyone who has walked down the path of doing real research into the issue and not come out of it horrified with Isreal's actions and this has been long before Oct, 7 2023. Most people who are "fine" with the situation are the ones getting their opinions from the news.
- c0mbonat0r 3y ago
  [flagged]
- GordonS 3y ago
  > I don't personally know anyone who has walked down the path of doing real research into the issue and not come out of it horrified with Isreal's actions and this has been long before Oct, 7 2023. I'm slightly ashamed to admit that until Israel's propaganda and genocidal response to the Al Aqsa Flood attack, I believed Israel were basically The Good Guys doing their best against terrorist neighbours. I feel like most people in the UK thought like that, and I rarely saw any negatively portrayals of Israel in the MSM. From what I've learned since, I've been... horrified - and like you said, by their actions going way back.
izietto 3y ago
> propaganda news outlets Is ONU considered a propaganda news outlet nowadays? https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-146 https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
- dekhn 3y ago
  I would say that the UN uses propaganda but in this case the page you linked to is a fairly factual description of the current situation.

fny 3y ago

[flagged]

bluefishinit 3y ago
The ICJ didn't rule on whether or not Israel was committing genocide. It said Israel needed to take the steps to not commit genocide. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-israei-genocide-case-2024-01-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-worl...
- fny 3y ago
  The case against Israel brought forth by South Africa states quite clearly South Africa asserts Israel is violating the Genocide Convention [0]. The ICJ never corroborated this claim meaning there was not enough evidence to substantiate it. [0]: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192...
- egberts1 3y ago
  But it remains a court order in which carries the full weight of the ICJ. https://global.upenn.edu/perryworldhouse/news/explaining-international-court-justices-ruling-israel-and-gaza#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20Israel%20must%20conduct%20the,does%20not%20commit%20%5Bgenocide%5D%3B%E2%80%9D https://global.upenn.edu/perryworldhouse/news/explaining-int...
aaomidi 3y ago
ICJ was not asked to convict Israel of committing genocide. That was not in the initial ask. The ask was to force Israel to stop its military operation. The ICJ's provisional verdict was _actually pretty bad_ for Israel: "The aforementioned facts and circumstances are sufficient to conclude that at least some rights of the Palestinians to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts in Article 3 of the Genocide Convention, and the rights of South Africa to seek protection of these rights." Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/icj-president-cites-inflammatory-comments-by-gallant-herzog-in-genocide-case-ruling/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/icj-president-c...

7thaccount 3y ago

I think the problem is that folks look at things in a bizarre black and white manner and see it as either 1.) Israel has every right to defend itself from further terrorist attacks and isn't doing anything wrong, or 2.) Israel has no right to retaliate at all. I think the more moderate view is that Israel suffered a heinous terrorist attack perpetrated by a terrorist group in power. Israel has a right to defend their people from such attacks and a military response shouldn't be surprising given the extent of the crimes. However, the people in Gaza (non terrorists) are also human beings who should be treated that way. Not everyone supports the terrorist actions (apparently Hamas is incredibly unpopular amongst the people, but they have little discourse if they don't want to disappear) and the military response from Israel seems to have gotten to a point where children being blown up and starving to death somehow comes with the territory. Surely there is a way to reduce the casualties of innocent bystanders. Surely Israel should provide food and aid to the people after bombing all their infrastructure into the stone age. I admit not being as informed as I should be, but just how many times are we going to have genocide before we learn to stop? Just since the Holocaust we've had genocide in Cambodia, Serbia, Rwanda, China, and now Gaza. In the more distant past it was even more common (e.g. trail of tears).

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
> we've had genocide in Cambodia, Serbia, [...] Just to correct you, the genocide was in Bosnia, not Serbia, as a culmination of years of ethnic cleansing of the muslim (and to a smaller extent the ethnic Croat) population of Bosnia by the Serbian ethnic group during the period of 1992-1995. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  Thank you! It's been awhile since I went over that.